Weird hostility on my part.

Okay, this isn't exactly a sexual question, but it's related to sexual issues, so I feel that this is the best place for it.

Talking to my boy tonight, we got on to a topic about high heels and how I find them attractive. He says that they don't do anything for him; for him it's all about your basic "smile and breasts." In my personal opinion, I look goofy when I smile, and I'm a member of the relatively itty bitty titty committee.

This slightly annoyed me.

I press the issue a bit, trying to figure out exactly why he feels that way. I realize that this is a stupid thing to do; people like the things they like and don't like the things they don't. That's all, folks. However, I was not content.

The conversation continues, and we nail down the fact that he and I have very different tastes. In women, I really enjoy secure, dominant women who understand their strength and revel in it. He likes cute. I HATE cute. I am in no way "cute." I am very smart and fairly serious and I like puns. I don't wear pink. I don't squeal or talk in a baby voice. I'm not particularly excitable. I'm tall. I'm brunette with very thick, assertive hair. Basically, I am Not!Cute.

This is where I got really pissed off and mildly aggressive, which in my world involves being snappy and more formal than normal.

Of course, he's just kind of bewildered, and left to go shoot zombies or something, while I'm left mad and wondering why, exactly, I'm so mad. Like I said: you like what you like, and that's totally cool. I know this will pass shortly, and it's not a big deal; he'll come back from vidjima games and I'll have gotten over it, but it's preying on my mind at the moment.

What I'm asking you guys is basically, why AM I so mad? I don't normally get like this, and I'm wondering if anyone's dealt with anything similar.

ETA: I did just recall that a part of this annoyance came when I put on my favorite pair of high heel leather boots and got on the webcam and he called them "curb stomping boots." Perhaps not crucial information, but I recognize that it contributed to the annoyance.

Forums: 
kawaiikune's picture

Embodiment

it's fairly natural to be annoyed about that. He basically told you that he liked things in girls you don't feel like you had, and that he didn't like things you did like about yourself. It's not like you're two guys comparing what aspects of girls they like...he's you're boyfriend and it makes sense that some of your feelings about yourself would be linked to his opinion. After all, he's the one person (besides you) whose opinion of your sexuality really matters, and if my boyfriend singled out things I didn't like about myself and said he thought that was the most important thing in girls, I would feel like he found me unattractive. I'm guessing he didn't mean it that way, though.

I'm betting he just doesn't understand that he's being insulting. Maybe he likes smaller, perky breasts (I do), and he doesn't think your smile is goofy at all. I know tons of people with beautiful smiles, and I do think it's one of their best attributes, but their smiles just manage to look weird in pictures or they don't like their smiles themselves. Everyone looks better when they smile.

On top of that, what people have for an ideal in their heads isn't always what they end up finding most attractive. I've even met people that I've been like, man, if I had created in my head what the perfect person for me would be, it would be this person, but in the end, I'm wrong. I can tell that they wouldn't make me as happy, turn me on as much, or be as attractive to me as the guy I'm with. Maybe if your boyfriend had created the ideal woman in his head, it wouldn't have been you, but once he met you he realized you were better than the ideal. That's definitely how I feel about my boyfriend. He's not my ideal, he's better than my ideal.

I think above all it's important to remember that he finds you attractive. If he didn't he wouldn't be with you. He also obviously values your self-confidence and security enough to be honest with you about what he likes. I wouldn't worry too much, but I would maybe let him know how his comments made you feel and why. When I'm upset about things or feeling insecure is not usually the best time for me to have a conversation like that, but maybe the next time you talk to him, bring it up. I'm betting he'll understand and probably even feel terrible if you explain to him how his comments made you feel. And really, don't worry. If you weren't hot, he probably wouldn't be all up in your business, no matter how awesome your personality is. Most people really need (and have) both aspects to go after someone in the first place.

GreenGlass's picture

Supplicant

I'm not sure what to tell you. I have been ignoring a similar reaction in myself. I don't feel like describing it here because I'm very much outside the norm and ideal.

I guess I think you're taking it personally because it IS personal. Personal tastes. And although everyone has them, and you get this, this is "your" boy's tastes, and they're different than not only yours, but what YOU are.

I too am very enthralled with strong capable female figures. They're... inspiring. Empowering. They make me feel like a stronger, sexier woman myself. Figures like that make me feel confident and free to be horny. It's great! Guess what? My man has a completely different taste, but he does because that ideal makes him feel pretty similar, from what I can tell.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I feel like we really all are just selfish to begin with, in order to survive, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. It can inspire us to care about what another person thinks about us, or want to make the world a better place because WE live in it. It's how we're wired, but we also have the ability to continue beyond only selfishness if we want. For me, that meant emphasizing the cute aspects of me sometimes for my guy, or other aspects that I wouldn't have had any personal need to exhibit. It means I care about what he thinks too, I really do, I want to know the truth even if the truth is he didn't know he would pick ME until he did! (And that's ok too in the end, as long as he really did, right? It means his attraction to you was greater than some mental construct he thought he wanted.) I don't want to make him feel bad about that. But... I still want to feel good about the fact that he picked me, and loved, and beautiful, and cherished, and all that. Is that so bad? I can't really feel guilty for wanting those things. Life is pretty good with those feelings. Smile For GOOD reason, not because I'm a horrible human being. Because we can feel at all. That's my current perspective of this previously unexamined issue, anyway.

MeiLin's picture

Most High

You sure have a strong reaction to "cute!" What does "cute" mean to you? It would seem, from your remarks, that it involves loss of power, perhaps?

RandomScientist's picture

Petitioner

I think I understand where MsGamgee's coming from on this one. As someone who is not and never has been a girly girl (I'm a molecular geneticist and a gamer geek), I would probably be offended if someone called me "cute" (unless they were over 80 and kind of grandmotherly). My mother taught me as a toddler to tell people who called me a cute little girl that I was a baby woman.

"Cute" to me represents the stereotype of a woman who giggles and plays dumb and acts helpless to make men feel powerful and get them to take care of everything for her. Basically, it's a woman who thinks of herself as a girl and refuses to grow up. And women like that drive me crazy because I feel like they're reinforcing negative stereotypes and undermining all the work I've done to be taken seriously as a professional on equal intellectual footing with any man out there.

I suspect that my definition is likely not what the boyfriend in question meant by "cute", but it's what I would have heard, and I can understand being upset by that. I probably would be every bit as upset and angry as MsGamgee in that situation. I'm very thankful that my husband finds helpless "cute" women annoying and prefers someone smart and confident.

I don't have much advice to offer other than what's already been said: Talk to him once you've calmed down, try to understand what he means by cute, and help him to understand why it upset you. Also focus on the fact that he obviously wants to be with you, even if you don't fit the arbitrary picture he had in his head. I don't have much to contribute, but I thought I'd chime in that I understand where you're coming from about "cute" and that you're not alone in being frustrated by it.

MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

You pretty much nailed that one on the head; I honestly could not have explained that better myself. I think I have some increased sensitivity to it from several sources, honestly:

1. I basically AM my mother, and she feels the same way about cute that you described to a T. I've been taught to be hyper responsible and super reliable. Deflection of any responsibility by the fact of "But I'm just a giiiiirl!" really boils my kettle.

2. Though I've been with my boy for more than two years now, I originally had some trouble with that when I happened to be into him but he happened to be into my best friend, who is, shall we say, Cute. I love her to death, but she makes a hell of a lot more sense taking care of Peter Pan and pretending to be a pirate than she does trying to be mature or reasonable.

RandomScientist's picture

Petitioner

Sounds like your mother is an equal-rights feminist from the same school as mine, so we were probably raised with a lot of the same views and lessons. My mother was one of the leaders for my girl scout troop for years, all the way through high school. Instead of teaching us crafts and embroidery, we learned woodslore, cooking on a campfire, and how to change a tire. Which I have to say has been a lot more useful to me in my adult life than what many girl scouts learn. (I have never had to tie a friendship bracelet or make a reindeer out of pasta, but knowing how to read trail maps and change a flat tire has been darn handy.)

I think your second point may be worth exploring a bit more to understand the strength of your reaction to your boy's statement about liking "cute" girls. Is there a part of you that, no matter how irrational it is, worries that he would have preferred your friend, the "cute" one? I could see that being something that might hit a deep nerve of insecurity that you're not consciously aware of or able to control.
When my husband and I were first dating, I had some insecurities about his ex-girlfriend, who had been a friend of mine before they met. I knew she was much more comfortable with her body and sexuality than I was, and I kept feeling like I was going to disappoint him or not measure up somehow. No matter how much I reasonably told myself that he wanted to be with me now because I was a genuine, honest person who wouldn't play manipulative games... the little voices inside couldn't help but be insecure sometimes about whether I was really what he wanted and how I measured up.
So I wonder if you have some of the same sort of thing going on, on a lesser scale, about his past crush on your friend. I could see that kind of subconscious worry causing you to react more strongly to a statement about him liking "cute" girls than you might otherwise. I'm not trying to play psychologist here and tell you what you're feeling (I'm a geneticist, so not at all qualified for that), but it struck a parallel for me, so I thought I'd bring it up in case it helps you work through why you're having this reaction and maybe how you can be more aware in the future, so you and your boy can talk things through instead of ending up confused and angry. In short, take it if it helps and ignore it if you think I'm off base.

MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

Actually, very good call. Definitely something I'll have to think about!

Davik's picture

Embodiment

Hell yes, if I ever get over my dislike of children enough to have kids and have a girl, she's damned well learning what is important. She's learning wilderness survival, hunting, mechanics, plumbing, carpentry, and everything else that I know that is useful for both survival and keeping your environment running. I have met far too many women who didn't know how to do basics like changing a tire or starting a fire. Of course on the flip side I've met plenty of guys who couldn't start a campfire with a lighter, and who had relied on their mothers to do their laundry or cook for them their whole lives. As far as I'm concerned by the time a kid leaves for college they should know everything they need to survive on their own both in civilization and in the middle of nowhere. I just wish I had had the chance to learn more from my grandparents (or that my parents had learned it and passed it on), since I'm just now learning skills that they were experts in.

Katie's picture

Embodiment

I don't know a lot of the stuff mentioned above, and I sure as heck wish I did.

applejax's picture

Supplicant

I'm self-sufficient enough that I can cook and do laundry, but if I owned my own house and had to fix things, I'm not sure how well that would work out. As for surviving in the wilderness, my skills are based solely on what they do in Lost Blum 3

Davik's picture

Embodiment

Believe me, owning a house is something of an adventure Blum 3 Had to teach myself how to run copper pipe not long ago...

Shade's picture

Supplicant

I really applaud you for this attitude. My dad is the same way, and as a result, all of my siblings and I can take care of nearly every common house-related or wilderness issue. It's been indescribably useful, and has saved me a great deal of money. Makes hauling stuff into the mountains for camping a lot easier too :D.

He also got broken cars from his friends and has us fix them when we got our driver's licenses - if we could fix the car ourselves, we got to keep it and use it.

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

According to some of those aptitude tests you take in high school, I rate much higher than average for females in spatial awareness & mechanical aptitude. I don't think that I was born with that, so much as I grew up helping my dad fix stuff around the farm. Just like I learned 80% of my animal husbandry skills from my mother growing up.

Depends on the farm and it depends on the farm kid, but growing up on a farm is an easy way to learn a hella lot of fun stuff. For instance, I just rescued my husband today from a flat tire on the highway with my dad's truck (full of fun tools!) and the mega floor jack from our farm shop. We had that car up, spare tire on, and back on the road in no time. All the while, I was laughing to myself, wondering if the drivers going by were thinking that he was rescuing me 'cos I was the one standing there that had the boobs...!

Best advice for learning a lot of these non-school skills: fix it yourself with a friendly expert standing over your shoulder. You won't remember it in an emergency unless your hands did it before, but when it comes to things like motors, plumbing, and electricity, you don't want to try fixing it the first time by yourself.

Davik's picture

Embodiment

I would say that doing the plumbing myself the first time wasn't that bad, but I had my uncle the master plumber on the phone shortly before I did it Blum 3 Electrical stuff, definitely make sure you're with someone who knows what they're doing, you can get a lot worse than wet.

V's picture

Embodiment

2nded on the plumbing. It was a solo effort, if you don't count the various calls to my Dad over the course of the multiple trips to the hardware store, investigation, digging-deeper-into-holes, and eventual resolution. I'm told this is simply the nature of any plumbing job, and I believe it.

RandomScientist's picture

Petitioner

You reminded me of a similar tire changing story. Last flat I got, a few years ago, I happened to have a male friend in the car with me. I noticed a lot of people slow down like they were going to help, then speed up again and keep going. I assume they were checking on me and decided I'd be fine because I had a guy with me. What they didn't know is that he was European and couldn't even drive a car, much less change a tire. His assistance involved holding my hair out of my face because I didn't have a scrunchie and keeping the nuts from rolling away as I took them off.

While my mother was busy teaching me basic car repair and woodslore, my father made sure I learned how to do basic carpentry and electrical work. Plumbing, on the other hand, I'm not that good at. My father hates doing plumbing, and after the second time he created a waterfall in our front hallway, he quit doing major plumbing work himself. Thus, I never really learned much of that. I figure I'm still ahead of a lot of people, so no real complaints.

Davik's picture

Embodiment

If you ever hit a real plumbing problem, drop me a message; I can almost guarantee that I won't know the problem (though I may know how to fix it now), but I'm sure my uncle will. He also seems to enjoy being the source of wisdom in a family where his sister (my mother) has a masters in business and his brother was a literal rocket scientist Smile I take this as just one of the signs that advanced degrees only mean so much, because I'll never match him in either his plumbing or his woodworking (which he picked up just as a hobby in retirement, but is seriously master level).

Laureril's picture

Supplicant

My mother was always adamant that there were three skills every girl needs to know.
- how to throw a real punch.
- how to change a tire.
- how to drive stick.

I've got the first two down, and I'm learning the third. I also have several more interesting - if less applicable - skills that I've learned over the years.

Spoiler: Highlight to view

Threadcraft: Carding, spinning, weaving, knitting, sewing, embroidery, various useful knots (bowline, square, half-hitch...)
Metalworking: Can make 4:1 or 6:1 chainmail, I can also use a whetstone
Fletching and Archery: I've made a laminate shortbow but haven't had the chance to really try it yet (I didn't want it to break, since it was for a costume competition. That I made it usable... well, that was just an added bonus for me.) I'm not a great shot with it, but I haven't really spent much time at it either.
Woodcraft and carpentry: I can make something square, hammer a nail, countersink a screw, use a level, drill, router, bandsaw and jigsaw. I want to learn to turn stuff on a laithe this summer.
Leatherworking: If I had to, I could probably skin an animal and cure the hide. (Braaaains!) I work with rawhide on a fairly regular basis to make Taiko drums for our group.
Plantlore: Fairly basic, but I know enough not to step in poison ivy and to recognize some of the basic edibles. I also know how to graft plants and how to care for fresh-cut flowers.
Animal care: Basic horse grooming and behavior (ie, I know better than to stand directly behind one) I can keep my seat riding Western through a gallop. Not so much for English though. I can also milk a cow.
Fishing: I can bait a hook and remove a fish from said hook. I've watched plenty of fishies being filleted so I think I could do that, given a sharp knife.
General survival: I can recognize tracks, start a fire (given reasonable conditions), read a map, find directions by the stars. I can also swim well enough to get my NAUI scuba license.
Construction: I can put in insulation, put up drywall, mud and tape, paint, and use a stud-finder.
Mechanical stuff: I can jump a battery, change a tire, and fix a shorted wire - that's about as far as I go without some professional help. Blum 3
Computer stuff: I'm a Comp Sci minor. I'm fairly proficient with any OS, use keyboard shortcuts, touch type and can program in Java. I can also understand Python, BASIC, and C, and pretty much any pseudo-code. I'm familiar with various sorting and searching algorithms and can do logic proofs. I can also identify the various parts of a computer, take them apart, and put them together. I can usually keep up in discussions about hardware (eg. Debate graphics card and processor compatibility) with my techie boyfriend. I can also hold my own in most fps or arcade games once I know the controls.
Self-Defense: I have an orange belt in Youn Wha Tae Kwon Do and I'm fairly well acquainted with break-falls and vulnerable points as well as how to hit them. I've also learned firearm safety and I was actually a rather good shot with a pistol (stationary target) or a rifle (clay shooting.)

All in all, I think my parents (and grandparents - they live on a farm. My grandfather taught wood and auto-shop, and my grandmother taught home economics) taught me pretty well. Biggrin

Edited for some formatting issues. Put it behind a spoiler tag 'cause it's longish.

applejax's picture

Supplicant

I feel so inadequate next to you! I can drive stick, knit and crochet very badly, and grow herbs in my windowsill. I'm better at computer stuff than anything else (Info Science major) but compared to survival stuff, that seems less important. I need some sort of checklist for things I need to learn. I'll teach you to drive stick if you teach me how to punch and change a tire. Sound good? Blum 3

Laureril's picture

Supplicant

Well, a lot of those skills are something that would probably never come up. For learning survival and such, consider finding a copy of the Boy Scout Handbook and the Boy Scout Fieldbook. I had an Eagle scout who was like my big brother through high school give them to me as a graduation gift since I showed some interest in survival.

My parents have always encouraged me to help out around the house if there are any projects going on. (Aack, forgot building decking, laying tile and pouring concrete.) Volunteer with Habitat for Humanity if you want to learn construction skillz.

A lot of the more anachronistic skills are from personal interest and research. If you have a chance, talk to a local SCA-person if you're interested in that sort of thing. I'd love to learn some smithing, but I just haven't had the time (or the forge!)

What I know about horses comes from a friend of the family who boards horses at a barn about an hour or so away from the house and volunteering at Equest (Physical therapy from horseback riding. The movement of a horse is similar to walking.) I've actually herded cattle once on a vacation at a dude ranch. I learned to milk a cow when I was little at some kind of heritage farm.

fairnymph's picture

Embodiment

Just sayin'. Also, IME, what men think of as 'cute' is not at all what women think of as 'cute'. Cute is much more favourable in men's minds.

You can be a strong, assertive, mature woman and still be cute. These things are not mutually exclusive!

TheBoy's picture

Embodiment

fairnymph wrote:
You can be a strong, assertive, mature woman and still be cute. These things are not mutually exclusive!

Quite.

RandomScientist's picture

Petitioner

Well, yes, I said that his definition of cute probably wasn't the same as she or I were thinking of and that she should clarify that with him. I just wanted to say that I understood where she was coming from and didn't think it was unreasonable, that I would be upset by being called cute, too, because of the connotations it has in my head.

And I suppose it's possible to be a scientist and gamer and also a girly girl; I just don't think it's possible for -me-. I was saying that I define myself as a scientist, an educator, and a geek more than as female: they're things I chose and/or worked to be, things I'm proud of, rather than a quirk of genetics.

Emoi's picture

*reinforces negative stereotypes about women by acting cute and helpless because my boyfriend thinks it's adorable*
As long as he knows that I am actually fairly competent though, I'm fine with it.

Davik's picture

Embodiment

To add a guy's perspective, I think I would call most of the girls I've dated as cute; maybe it's just the fact that I tend to go for girls outside the norm, but to me cute is what I associate with the women I'm actually attracted to. That is, capable, assertive, intelligent women wearing reasonable clothes and shoes (not a dress and heels [gods I hate heels, stupidest thing ever in my opinion], think jeans, tshirt, and boots), and that's just my ideal. If a girl can't tromp around in the woods or crawl through a cave with me she isn't what I'm looking for, and if she can't challenge me mentally there isn't a prayer's chance in hell.

I had one girlfriend who I think I instilled some feelings in similar to what you're going through, in that she was all dressed up and decked out in makeup for a wedding and asked what I thought. Well, being a fairly honestly person I expressed something along the lines that I preferred her without all the make up (I can't stand makeup on women). I realize she was disappointed that I didn't really like the fancy hair, layers of makeup, and extravagant dress, but as far as I'm concerned that's just gilding the lily. You may think your smile isn't right and your breasts aren't exactly what you would want, but maybe he (like I in the mentioned case), find that adding all of that to something already perfect just detracts from the whole. I realize it may be hard to see it from his point of view, but if he likes you exactly the way you are he isn't going to be thrilled with changes.

The Which's picture

Embodiment

Perhaps you are the exception, but most men have no idea how much makeup women wear. I once got very heavily made up for a date, and the guy told me he preferred me without makeup. He had NEVER seen me without makeup; the only difference was that I added eyeshadow, eyeliner & blush. My nice skin? Foundation. My long lashes? Mascara. Lips? Ok, just chapstick there.

My father is the same way. He tells my mother he doesn't like makeup, but what he doesn't realize is he just doesn't like heavy or obvious makeup. When she puts on foundation and mascara, he always tells her she "look[s] nice today," with no idea of why.

Davik's picture

Embodiment

I'm fairly certain most of the girls I've dated didn't even own makeup. In one case we lived together for a year and I'm certain she didn't have anything more than chapstick (though she did have a real thing for that chapstick...)

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

The Which wrote:
doesn't like makeup, but what he doesn't realize is he just doesn't like heavy or obvious makeup.

Yes, that's how I feel about it. But with the Acarophob, it's all or nothing.

kawaiikune's picture

Embodiment

makeup on women. I really think foundation is kind of gross and I can almost always tell when someone is wearing it. I want to be able to kiss someone on the cheek and not get junk on my mouth.

Also, if I'm used to seeing someone without makeup, I usually think they're very pretty, but if I ever see someone that *always* wears makeup and then I see them without it, I usually find them a little unattractive both ways. I usually think a *little* eyeliner or eyeshadow is fine, but mascara always makes people's eyelashes look clumpy, and foundation and rouge kind of gross me out, as does lipstick. I want women to look soft and kissable, and the artificialness of makeup really turns me off.

As a bisexual girl, I'm also not a huge fan of nail polish. I feel like it doesn't really add very much (and it often detracts) and if I'm on a date with a girl with nail polish, for me that usually eliminates a desire to partake in certain activities later. Maybe if I were a guy, I would feel differently about that, though. There is nothing grosser than fake nails, though. Every time I look at them, all I can think of is bacteria. Blum 3

Eleonora's picture

Devotee

To quote Anita Blake: "Foundation is a bitch to get out of the carpet" I don't like it either. I usually don't wear make-up, but I like to wear eye-shadow once in a while. I bought really pretty mascara from Clinique, that is really natural, and just gives colour and no clumpiness or fat ugly lashes, I really don't like that either.

kawaiikune's picture

Embodiment

the carpet? Really??

Eleonora's picture

Devotee

In context, she's very glad that she's not wearing it, and that the carpet is dark.

edit: whohoo new badge!

The Which's picture

Embodiment

but I mix a little foundation with my moisturizer every morning, and I get complimented on my complexion quite frequently. My mother is very honest, and if she can tell that I'm wearing foundation, she tells me. Also, my lashes stick straight out & you can't even tell they are there unless I curl them and put on mascara. This entire routine takes me about 60 seconds in the morning, and it makes me feel so much better. I'm hardly aiming for sex-symbol; straight teeth (paid for by my parents) and good skin make me feel more attractive, which equals more confidence, blah blah blah. (I sometimes do pile on the makeup though; it's fun, and I feel like barbie eyeshadow allows the quirkier aspects of my personality to come out)

I'm with you on the fake nails though, especially when you can see the nasty yellow real nails underneath.

Shade's picture

Supplicant

Yes, oh, long fake nails with nasty ones underneath are the worst, especially working in a retail setting X_X.

So much stuff that can get stuck under there and nobody washes, bleargh.

I'm far too lazy to wear makeup (and really inept at knowing what looks good) so I go without it, unless I'm performing.

Gudy's picture

Embodiment

... makeup is only good when you don't (or only barely, after looking more closely) notice it. If you have the right attitude and complexion you can get away with wearing fuck-me-red nail polish. Other than that, noticeable makeup is a detraction more than an enhancement, as far as I am concerned, to the point where I often think that a great many women are attractive despite their makeup.

kawaiikune wrote:
Maybe if I were a guy, I would feel differently about that, though.

No, you wouldn't. Trust me on that. Fake nails are gross, regardless of the gender of the observer. Blum 3 Instant mood killer, they are. *nods*

Katie's picture

Embodiment

I've never thought of them as gross, but that's probably just ignorance on my part. Really long ones are annoying and distracting. I've thought about maybe doing fake nails some day, because my nails are not. pretty. They do not ever grow to be pretty. I'm just vain enough that I think having pretty nails would be nice.

Makeup is (almost) always understated on me, if I wear it at all, which is rare. This thread is making me wonder if there are ANY guys who like obvious make up.

Eleonora's picture

Devotee

I suppose there is also a secondary effect. If you think you look prettier with make-up, wearing it will increase your confidence, and that can make you look prettier all by itself. So someone who is used to wearing make-up would look worse without it, because they're not comfortable.

Gudy's picture

Embodiment

... who like obvious makeup, although it does seem that the majority of the male regulars here is not among them.

It occurs to me that as far as I am concerned, the unappealing grossness of fake nails rests mainly in their obvious, overdone fakeness, which in turn suggests some parallels to my dislike of obvious makeup. Which would imply that if you could pull off fake nails in a way that makes them look understated and natural (in shape, length, thickness, and, uhm, decoration), I might not, in fact, find them gross. *shrugs* I haven't seen a great many examples of that so far, though.

Katie's picture

Embodiment

Quote:
*shrugs* I haven't seen a great many examples of that so far, though.

if they look natural, how would you know? Wink

Gudy's picture

Embodiment

... wide open for that one, didn't I. Blum 3

The thing is, I usually, at least sooner or later, notice makeup even when it's well done and non-obvious, which suggests that the same might be true of fake nails. Besides, I have seen what I think were well-done fake nails. Once. It was a very well done French manicure - itself something of a rarity - that looked natural from more than a foot or two away. The shape of the whole affair suggested to me that there were very well-done and expensive fake nails underneath that polish.

The Which's picture

Embodiment

Absolutely. My uniform at work is a baggy men's shirt & tie, & hair in a ponytail, so sometimes I play it up with the makeup, pretending to be barbie.

Hot pink on top & bright green on bottom, with lots of black black mascara. Turquoise eyeliner the whole way around with matching turquoise mascara. Shiny silver eyeshadow and black liquid liner.

Men flirt more and tip better when I look like I'm wearing stage makeup. Part of that might be personality--I feel different when I look different. I think it's more than that, though. I think many men see all that makeup as hyper-sexual or hyper-feminine, and that's what they like about it (unfortunately, there don't appear to be any men who feel that way on here, so I could be totally wrong).

Also, porn stars. Fake nails, fake boobs, lots of makeup. If that's what you grow up mastrubating to, that's probably what you're going to like.

MeiLin's picture

Most High

at least subconsciously, I suspect, is that it shows you've gone to all this trouble to attract their attention. That in itself is attractive for some men.

V's picture

Embodiment

Subconscious or not. When I'm in "single guy" mode (note: Scrapper, this is NOT MY CURRENT MODE) and flirting with waitresses, etc, I'll give more credit in the form of attention and tips to one who goes out of her way to wear something fairly revealing, spend some time moving her image closer to the Hollywood whatever, and be friendly. I don't see anything particularly wrong with that.

V's picture

Embodiment

I can enjoy "obvious" makeup on some women, but few of them are ones I'd want to have any sort of sustained friendship/relationship with. Waitress I'll probably never see again? Sure. Porn star? Could wear a lot, but they often overdo it anyway. Girlfriend? If she showed up like that she'd sure get a reaction, but not necessarily the same one *grin*

Basically--heavy makeup works on eye candy, but I don't want to date someone who defines themselves as eye candy. Dressing nicely or using enough makeup to create a certain effect I'm OK with, but there's a line to be crossed and it DOES lie further than "anything detectable"...visible makeup is not inherently bad. Too much gaudy, visible makeup and the woman's telling me something about how she sees herself or how she wants to be seen. OK, fine. I'll fap, but don't expect much more.

I do take exception to your last line, tho--it reaches too far. Consider something like: "If that's what you grow up masturbating to, it may always hold a niche". It's definitely not what you're probably always going to like.

The Which's picture

Embodiment

I'm certainly not an anti-porn advocate, warning that pornography warps the minds and libidos of the nations youth! But *my* first pleasurable sexual experiences... well, those scenarios have stuck with me. That's not all I like, but I do still like them! So call it a "niche" if it makes you more comfortable, but all I meant was that I can't imagine growing to dislike something that was so integral to sexual satisfaction at some point in one's life.

Davik's picture

Embodiment

Fake or not, any really long nails are a complete and utter instant turn off. Talk about something that just completely hinders your dexterity... Anyone trying to pull on a set of gloves for lab with long nails is pretty much doomed to failure, not to mention trying to accomplish some of the ridiculously dexterous tasks with them (e.g. using a 31 gauge insulin needle to inject polymer into a 120 um gap between two pieces of insanely thin glass as I'll be doing tomorrow). Also, one of the constant horror stories through all my years of martial arts has been one of someone snagging a nail on a uniform while throwing a kick/punch and ripping it out.

Katie's picture

Embodiment

they get in the way of SO many things. Like typing, or playing the piano. But they can be nice looking without being overly long.

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

I can't stand typing when my nails are more than 3mm long..

Laureril's picture

Supplicant

'Fuck-me-red' sounds like a rather painful shade. I had to read that twice before I figured out what color the 'fuck-me-red' nail polish actually was. Blum 3

On a more serious note - I have a lot of the same feelings about makeup - I usually go completely without, but for when I feel like looking a little nice: concealer, a light dust of mineral powder foundation, mascara (brown and combed-through to avoid dark or clumpy. Being a strawberry blonde means that black looks funky on me.), and maybe a little eye shadow.

I do love this one thing I've found for lips though - lip stain. Rather than being sticky or goopy like lip gloss or prone to rubbing off on things like lipstick, it's like a marker that colors your lips slightly without leaving anything to feel funky - although the taste caught me off guard. I'll occasionally (for very, very formal events) use it as the base to a lip gloss - works wonders because I don't feel like I have to reapply constantly to keep color on my lips.

My other favorite trick is a slightly shimmery beige eye-shadow. It keeps my face looking very natural, but adds a little brightness to my eyes.

Gudy's picture

Embodiment

... fuck-me-red does not refer to the color your mucous membranes are in after one too many bouts between the sheets. (You perv! Blum 3 ) I meant the particular deep, bright shade of red that goes with the fuck-me-now choice of footwear (high heels, boots, whatever) in a woman's wardrobe.

Just to clear up any remaining confusion...

Laureril's picture

Supplicant

I was just in a bit of a mischievous mood and thought I'd indulge a bit. Blum 3

And as to being a perv ... From this community, I take it as only the highest complement.

Gudy's picture

Embodiment

... it was meant to be taken. Smile

MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

You're right that you have a very different idea of "cute" than I do, which is a really good point. Though I feel like I do get what he means by it, there's that big overarching possibility that I have no idea what I'm talking about! Blum 3 We'll probably talk about that at a later date, he and I.

silvermare's picture

I have two theories. The first is the simplist, and basically blames hormones. Yep, the lazy route out. The second uses the theory that communication is encoded by the sender, and decoded by the receiver, and the the message isn't adequately relayed when the frame of reference is different. The more different the frame of reference, the less information gets passed adequately.

In this case, I'd bet that when you hear the word "cute" that you think something ENTIRELY different than what he thinks under the same circumstances. Have you asked him what he thinks of when he says cute, what he defines "cute" as? In regard to boobs, did he specifically say he liked large breasts? He might be thinking he likes well-formed boobs... or just likes boobs, no matter what they look like. I know a fair few guys like that.

Oh, and the so-called "curb-stomping boots?" I have no data on the subject, but it sounds kinda sexy. Maybe your boyfriend thinks so too. Maybe he thinks he complimented them? I'm thinking he might be the same way about shoes that most guys are about colors. "Mauve? Sea foam? Cheesecake? Um... What happened to red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, black, and white?"

Juuuust my two cents Smile

Gudy's picture

Embodiment

... good advice in this thread, and I specifically second everything kawaiikune said. (This happens with surprising frequency, now that I think about it. It works out well, too - she posts a lot and I am basically lazy Wink )

But this:

silvermare wrote:
In this case, I'd bet that when you hear the word "cute" that you think something ENTIRELY different than what he thinks under the same circumstances. Have you asked him what he thinks of when he says cute, what he defines "cute" as? In regard to boobs, did he specifically say he liked large breasts? He might be thinking he likes well-formed boobs... or just likes boobs, no matter what they look like. I know a fair few guys like that.

kinda jumped out at me as nailing the core of it, so consider it emphatically seconded.

Biestygirl's picture

Petitioner

Just because he's usually attracted to empty headed little cute things with knockers the size of watermelons doesn't mean that he doesn't love you.

In fact, it means you have to be something really special if he's with you. Don't worry about the physical appearance stuff so much, focus on your connection- talking, experiences you have together.

Don't get goofy about how you're not exactly "his type"; don't get jealous, don't snap and pick at every little thing. This leads to mega fights that aren't really about anything important and ends up hurting both your feelings.

Maybe when he's done playing you can talk to him on the phone (in person?) and explain why you got upset, the problems you have because you aren't really chesty, you don't feel that you're a "cute" girl (not that you're not attractive, but you prolly fit more like a "sexy" or "beautiful" card), and how your differences in taste worry you.

Hope this helps and doesn't sound too preachy :S

Marx's picture

Petitioner

I doubt her boyfriend meant he liked emptyheaded women.

A good friend of mine has the habit of telling me "that's cute of you" if I offer him something, like help for example. It aggravates me, even though he meant it entirely positive, because the way I'd use the word "cute" would be in a very condescending way, to express how not seriously I take whatever or whoever I commented on. It makes me feel as if he looked down on me, as if I were a mere child in his eyes. Children are cute, but not peers of your age.

As others have guessed, maybe it IS a simple problem of miscommunication - he meant something totally different by the word "cute", and you just can't let go of your own definition and accept that whatever it is he meant is surely a compliment. At least that's what I had to do in order to not snap at him (my buddy) for calling my help "cute".

Katie's picture

Embodiment

Marx wrote:

I'd use the word "cute" would be in a very condescending way, to express how not seriously I take whatever or whoever I commented on. It makes me feel as if he looked down on me, as if I were a mere child in his eyes. Children are cute, but not peers of your age.


This would be my definition of cute as well. My kids are cute. Puppies are cute. I've had an aversion to being 'cute' for a long time.
MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

My mom has said literally the exact same sentence to me since I was about 5 years old.

Katie's picture

Embodiment

Which sentence exactly?

MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

"Kids are cute. Puppies are cute. I am not cute." In effect.

Jacona's picture

I detested being called cute, I wanted to be called either beautiful or stunning or something I had read in my kiddy books. Then I got to my awkward teens and wished I could be called cute. Now a bit older, slightly more cynical I call young naive men cute. I believe it was best stated as a negative 'it's like an incontinent puppy. It's adorable but you don't want it on you.'

I find cute tends to denote youth, and general sense of innocuouness. For people who take themselves as people seriously, and wish to be seen with respect it is difficult to accept that definition as applied to themselves. Even with a more positive attitude to it, the definition is still something 'delightfully pretty and dainty' or 'Obviously contrived to charm; precious'. Neither of which inspire much confidence to be honest.

MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

I've been working on the whole "don't pick at everything" thing for a while. In high school, I made a point of being INCREDIBLY nice to everyone, always there to listen, ready to put down what I'm doing to help and let things go. A mildly abusive relationship and the start of going to a college where people actually talk like I do later, I've gotten a bit more aggressive, so I realize that I have to tone down my defenses at times. Smile

The Vixen's picture

Devotee

I know what you mean. Slagar and I kept having this 'swing and miss' issue, because he'd compliment me when I was dressed in a fashion that seemed the least "me" and he'd criticize anything I wore that I really liked on myself.

I got really upset one day, because I was excited to leave the apt in bright colors, feeling pretty, liking how I looked in the mirror, and he said I looked ridiculous (or something of that nature).

We talked about it, and sorted out the issue, and when I left to go see my dad Wed. afternoon, I was wearing just a pair of jeans, an Israeli army shirt, and had my hair wrapped up in a scarf and he said I looked so pretty. It meant the world to me, because I had fully expected him to pick on me about wrapping my hair.

... not much of advice, just moral support.

MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

That's just the most disappointing thing, isn't it? When you feel fabulous and someone you actually care about says you look silly/bad/wrong, etc. I'm glad that it worked out better recently, though!

Pedes's picture

Postulant

He might associate the words with slightly different meanings than you. He said "smile and boobs" and you automatically assumed "Julia Roberts (or whoever) smile and big boobs". Still, he might meant your, as you describe, slightly goofy smile, and the exact small boobs you have. If I say "nice men chest" some people will thing Swarzenegger, while this is as far from what I mean as could be (apart maybe from man boobs - they are even further).
"cute"... has very, very different connotations. It does not have to be pink-kind. I'm plump I dress somewhere round punk-grunge-goth-whatever often with trekking shoes. I am considered a person with strong personality, because I often stand up to people; and I'm bright enough to pull that off well. I tend to be dominating over potential partners, which usually puts me off (I need someone equal or stronger). I am considered a slightly dangerous person, although I don't know where it comes from (maybe the chain I wear has something to do with it XD). And still... I sometimes hear I am cute sometimes (not a mistake here Wink ) . Basically I am not cute, but it seems for some people I can be 0o So you may be cute for him to (eg. when you seep or when you smile) and it's not the pink-glitter kind.

MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

Well, he does like big ol' melons, but yes, I definitely know what you're talking about. And he DOES like me, physically as well as emotionally. I think the thing that was frustrating me is because I wanted a solid, empiric "WHY", and that was a silly thing to look for with something as subjective as features one likes.

That's a really interesting description of cute! I'd never really thought about it that way, but when you apply it to yourself, that sounds pretty kickass. As long as there's no glitter, I feel like I could handle that kind of cute. Wink

kawaiikune's picture

Embodiment

I've been with my boy for more than four years, and I still have no idea what he likes about me. Don't get me wrong...I know what I like about myself and I'm really happy with myself, I just don't know what *he* likes or what he looks for in women, except in bed (because we always talk about what we liked and things we would like to do differently). I also know he's happier with me than he has been with any other girlfriend he's ever had, and when I do things wrong I usually know what they are, but on the whole he's so laid back, nothing I do really seems to bother him. I'm pretty much myself all the time, and if I'm happy he's happy, so it's hard for me to tell what aspects of me he thinks are most important.

As far as the "cute" thing is concerned, I definitely get that all the time. It used to drive me really crazy. Boys would say I was cute, boys' parents would say I was cute (and still do), friends would say I was cute, and my parents always said I was cute. It really used to get under my skin and I always thought of it as condescending. I never understood it either; I'm not girly, giggly, I almost never wear pink (I'm just not sure if I own anything pink), and I have a filthy sense of humor (which I'm sure comes as a surprise to all of you). People even said I was cute when I was back in high school, and I was a huge tomboy. I've always been very self-sufficient, I used to have wrestling matches with my brother and his friends and win (sometimes), and I never dressed in anything except baggy t-shirts and jeans, but the "cute" thing persisted. I never understood it, but I guess what it comes down to is that even if the way I dress and act aren't something I would consider cute, people think I have a cute face. I'm 22 years old, and people still pinch my cheeks. I don't even look young from the neck down (boobs help with the looking older thing), but the face does me in every time.

I decided a while ago that I wasn't going to let it bother me. People treat me with a lot of respect in general, and a lot of people I know (even my older siblings) come to me with problems they need help solving. I don't think anyone is condescending to me in any way really, so if people want to say I'm cute, I don't really know how I can complain. After all, they mean it as a compliment, and clearly they don't think I'm less independent or self-sufficient or worthy of their respect. I try to take it as it was intended. I guess in general, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm "cute"...as long as you don't try to pinch my cheeks.

The Which's picture

Embodiment

All cute means to me is youthful and attractive. I would probably have described you as "cute" (sorry, and I won't do it again), because you *are* youthful and attractive!

Pedes's picture

Postulant

I have people sometimes trying to pat my head like a child's. A warning "do that again and I'll either bite or claw your hands" usually works, because people know I mean business (I guess it's my expression that does the job then Wink )

Katie's picture

Embodiment

I HATE it when my husband does that, and he doesn't understand why. It's SO condescending, and he tends to have a rather condescending attitude anyway.
Other people just get punched. Smile

Saudadina's picture

Devotee

And also, about the boots : maybe you felt very disappointed, because you love them and you think you look sexy and great in them, but your bf seemed not too. So you got angry because he doesn't like something you love, and because your wanted to look good for him and it didn't work as you expected. I get like that as well, when I try to dress up a bit, or to look nice, and my bf doesn't particularly cares for it, or mostly doesn't notice it.
Maybe you feel like you don't understand him : he says he likes cute girls whereas, in your opinion, they just look stupid. So, basically, the guy you love likes something stupid. Maybe you're also disappointed in him a little...

Lothran's picture

In my opinion, we all have physical ideals, but if we only use those to choose our mates, we are being grossly shallow in our thinking since the physical is the least important aspect for long term friendship and commitment. If you are the perfect image of his ideal, worry that he only cares about your looks, not you inside.

MsGamgee's picture

Embodiment

Now that's some advice after my own heart. Well said.

fairnymph's picture

Embodiment

As I am also very small-breasted, I always get annoyed when guys go on about boobs, or how much they like breasts. Even if they're guys I have no romantic interest in, just good friends. Two of my best guy friends are huge 'breast men' and they ALWAYS are talking about them - drives me nuts! And yes, I'll admit, it does make me feel slightly inferior.

I also don't think I have a good smile at all and while I don't feel as strongly about the smile thing, it is a milder version of the breast thing in my mind. Like kk said beautifully, it's normal you'd feel upset and I'm even upset just hearing it.

As for cute - cute doesn't really bother me but it used to, and I explained above why I think cute is good and not bad. But, I know how you feel. Someone told me I was 'sexy when I'm angry' lately, and that ticked me off more. It's very easy for such things to come across as patronising, and sometimes they are - but a lot of times they're not.

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

The thing about a woman's chest, is that the appearance can be faked. A pushup or a little stuffing is a temporary change to reality. Granted, there are surgical methods to achieve the same, but often leave an unnatural perkiness. Myself, I prefer curves and a nice ass. Yes, you can get hosiery to prop up the arse, but that's not as common.

As to you specifically, if you don't mind and I will edit this to remove if you are, also not tying to get you p.o'd either, you are a smaller woman. So a smaller chest looks good on you.

Don't know about guys in general, but myself, I like the proportional woman. Yes, curves are nice, but on a trim five foot nothing, again, proportions. There's not a lot of room for the waiste hip curve and that's okay. A huge pair of fun bags (don't you just love all the acronyms for breasticles?) on a smaller woman or vice versa, just looks out of place. And yes, there is such as thing as too big (see Barbie twins).

fairnymph's picture

Embodiment

I refuse to wear padded stuff on principle. I think it's unethical! Although sometimes I am tempted simply to even out my breasts which differ a little in size.

That doesn't piss me off, and you're right *to an extent* though I'm not short by any means, and I have relatives with my frame and large breasts who look great. Sure, I would take larger breasts, but it is not a major concern for me at all. I would much rather be how I am than have breasts larger than a C cup, or badly shaped, etc.

Dude, I hate terms for breasts. Ugh! Biggrin

TheBoy's picture

Embodiment

who's got a full cup-size of difference--she just wears a bra designed for the larger. I think that's less an ethical violation than full-on padding.

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

I was pretty sure you would so I tried to limit my random refrences to the sweater kittens...

fairnymph's picture

Embodiment

That's adorable and um, not large sounding! I LIKE that one! Hee.

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

I'm glad I picked one that you found amusing! Dance 4

TheBoy's picture

Embodiment

Hey! Loving breasts (and I do) doesn't mean loving unnaturally large ones.
I've had experiences with breasts from most of the "normal" size range (from not-even-A-Cup to [at least] D-cup). I've enjoyed them all.

MeiLin's picture
TheBoy's picture

Embodiment

I do know a gay man who is terrified of "coochie."

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

I knew a lesbian that used "can I ash in your clit" as a pick up line. To the best of my knowlege, it never worked.

She had a decent rack, but I wasn't her type...

judisheshok's picture

Postulant

And as well as I can represent that particular demographic, this statement holds true. Boobies are fun. Coochies.....ugh. Makes me squeamish, especially since making the full on 'conversion' to guys.

I honestly think that I have pretty much touched in some form or fashion every good female friend of mine. And....they don't care. It's like I get a "Get of Jail Free" card, except to touch breasts.

In High School, it wasn't uncommons for me to be center in a circle of girls, all of them discussing their undergarments, and indeed showing them to me, and then comparing to eachother.

Ahh....Nostalgia. lol

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

See, in college I knew of a couple gay guys who were very touchy-feelly, and seemed to think the fact that they were gay made it okay despite the fact that of my female friends who were acquaintances of said young men were not thrilled with the quasi-sexual contact.

Not that I think *you* would do such thing, once made aware of a woman's discomfort! I only mention it to poke a hole in the myth that gay guys = touching girls is okay.

Or more generally: no excuse is a good enough reason to make assumptions about that kind of contact.

judisheshok's picture

Postulant

You would be correct. I don't usually intentionally touch touch. My proprioception is not always what it ought to be, when dealing with other people, so I tend to walk into people, gesture wildly and hit them. It's not that I'm inattentive or unobservant, it's that I know them and 'personal space' bubble seems to go away.

You would also be correct on the fact that it IS a myth. Most girls 'seem' to be okay, but I will still ask if it is okay. I may have phrased it wrong, but I don't gropegrope people all the time. Or any of the time, if discomfort is expressed.

With some of my verly verly close female friends, it appears to be mutual, so I'm not sure how that works.

fairnymph's picture

Embodiment

Even if my breasts are nice despite their extreme smallness, they are certainly not my best feature so I prefer when men fetishise other body parts (legs, ass, etc) that I DO think take pride in. Biggrin

MeiLin's picture

Most High

Some of us are naturally unnaturally large.

Before you get all het up, the rest of me matches, sadly...

judisheshok's picture

Postulant

Psh. We dun care. We heart you for you. Smile

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

You are naturally large. Where that would be unnatural, or look out of place anyway, is if your set was on someone smaller than Fairnymph.

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

In the interest radical sexual equality, if we're going to encourage so much discussion of boob size, we ought to encourage discussion of dick size as well. That way we can *all* feel self-conscious behind our monitor screens Wink

TheBoy's picture

Embodiment

hey...
some of us are naturally unnaturally large. Wink

Remember the -in suffix?

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

I'm not unnaturally large, just naturally large... }:)

Davik's picture

Embodiment

I don't think that having a bit of a thing for breasts means anything about them being large. I'll admit, I love breasts, but in general I'm more attracted to a-b as opposed to c-d. I generally attribute this to the fact that I'm usually attracted to very active athletic girls, which tends to limit sizes Blum 3 I've only known a couple of girls who spent hours a day sparring/running/etc. and were still in the top end of the spectrum, and most of those were either contemplating a reduction and/or bitching about the inconvenience.

Laureril's picture

Supplicant

I'm not nearly as active as I used to be, but I know the feeling. I used to practice martial arts five days a week, for 2-3 hours a day. Without strapping the damn things down they fly all over the place in sparring. Not to mention that they can make punching kinda awkward. I'm a D cup at 5'4" and 165 lbs, so I'm still on the heavy side of things, but even with sports bra+shelved camisole they were rather uncomfortable.

At least when I wore a chest guard they weren't quite as bad since those things are supportive in the 'mash them down until they can't move' sort of way.

Shade's picture

Supplicant

Chest guards = win.

Discovered that the hard way in fencing - getting stabbed in the boob is an experience I would recommend to no one. What is a chest guard for martial arts made out of? Mine is hard plastic, but do they make you use something softer since you're actually touching each other?

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

When I've worn one in karate point-sparring, it was made out of artificial padding stuff about an inch thick with a vinyl-type coating.

Of course, the only time in my ten years of martial arts studying that I have ever seen anyone taken away by an ambulance was in the case of a gentleman who *was* wearing a chest guard, and all other standard gear! He was a tall-ish fellow, and the chest guard rode up a bit and his sparring partner's side-kick snuck in just below it - basically a direct smash into the guy's spleen. He was fine, but couldn't return to martial arts for six months or so (like after getting mono, he had to be extra careful not getting more damage to his spleen).

Re: original topic of breats & sports - I am glad that I'm an A/B. I just wish I wasn't an A/B in the land where most non-tailored woman's clothing is designed for the B/C crowd...!

Shade's picture

Supplicant

Thanks for the info! Smile Scary about the spleen whacking, that must have really hurt.

And I feel your pain with the non-tailored clothing. I barely fill an A-cup and no shirts fit me properly V_V.

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

I know! I've started buying the occasional casual men's shirt if there's one in extra-small and/or a tight-fitting (for guys) style. Fits my square-for-a-woman shoulders and A/B chest nicely. And of course, there's always the standard formless t-shirt with jeans for everyday wear.

ANd yeah, I imagined it hurt - he dropped right to the ground and stayed there until the ambulance guys took him out on a stretcher =/ We were all glad he was able to recover fully!

Shade's picture

Supplicant

My shoulders are bigger than normal for a woman, too - guess that's what comes of spending summers chopping firewood and throwing hay bales around, haha. I hadn't tried buying smaller men's shirts, but that's a great idea. Is there a particular store chain you get them from that you'd recommend?

I'm glad the guy recovered!

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

Oh, I'm cash-conscious first, style-conscious-second, so I end up buying off the clearance rack at Tractor Supply or whatever the current seasonal sales are at the local department stores like Sears and Kaufman's. For one or two nice outfits, I'll hit up sales at Fashion Bug. Sometimes Wal-Mart, but honestly most of their stuff is junk or horribly designed (cheap does not automatically equal good value, after all). I think the most recent male-clothing purchases I made were all from Sears. Plain men's casual buttoned-down shirts work well for me and suit my sense of personal style. Especially if you wear it with a more feminine piece underneath, like a girl's tank-top.

Also, :pirate: ! Wink

Laureril's picture

Supplicant

And believe me, catching a bad roundhouse in the kidney is no fun. I made the mistake of going a size too small and turning to the wrong side. As well as they protect the chest and sides... that one had me keeled over pretty fast. No real damage though thankfully.

I know that some of the more experienced students fought without pads in light sparring - especially the ones that wanted the extra mobility. Some of those guys were FAST!

Davik's picture

Embodiment

I never used more than forearm/back of hand guards and shin/top of foot, and most of the people I sparred with used the same. A few people wore helmets, but in general we just pulled our hits to about half power. We would still hit hard enough that the strike would make you feel it, and you'd have bruises off a serious hit, but there weren't any really serious injuries. There was one guy several ranks above me, who in multi-person sparring attempted to grab me to use as a human shield, which resulted in him getting 3 stitches and me having a nice lump on my head. Another guy (a couple of ranks below me) managed to sneak a front kick up the inside of my thigh right in to a delicate spot (totally my fault even though he didn't pull it, as I should have stopped it). His problem, however, was in laughing about it. It turns out that a crotch shot only debilitates a guy for 20-30 seconds even without a cup; I had about a minute after that in the sparring round with him, and I was not nice about it. The next sparring round had him facing a friend of mine who had seen the whole thing and who was several belts above me. It was a not a pretty sight Blum 3

Samaris's picture

Supplicant

The things I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for! Wink

Shade's picture

Supplicant

Seconded. Biggrin

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

Fly on the wall? Bawls, I want to be there with a video camera...

Samaris's picture

Supplicant

I thought I'd start with the small wishes, and work my way up! Wink

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

It varies from dojo to dojo and also on rank. My current dojo doesn't use chest guards at all, but mouthpiece, headgear, hand gear, and foot gear are all required to start point sparring. Top ranks (brown belt+) are welcome to modify - the general standard is mouthpiece & hand gear for point sparring. For grappling/street sparring, it's nothing but the uniform & the mouthpiece.

Protective gear standards vary just about as much as belt color schemes and learning kata, I find. Makes me roll my eyes at anyone who insists that THEIR way of doing it is of course the correct one.

Laureril's picture

Supplicant

Sounds pretty similar.

At the particular place I trained, the only thing 'required' for sparring was the mouth guard - and even then, most of the upper belts went without. Brown and up were pretty much given free rein, but white belts typically ended up in helmet, chest, forearm/hand, shin/foot, and mouth guards - maybe as much for their partner's safety as their own =D. Cups were strongly recommended, and on occasion, sensei would break out the 'sack of spaghetti' story to remind the boys why.

I think the chestguards usually got abandoned around blue or purple, helmets at red, and by brown most people were down to arm/leg guards. In tournaments, I think it was all required though.

For the days we did throws and grappling, just the uniform (and hope to god you didn't forgo an undershirt. XD) Mouthpiece optional.

Davik's picture

Embodiment

The first place I studied, and where I did most of my studying, didn't actually require any gear. The first time I sparred I only had a uniform; the black and blue forearms and the lumps down the length of my ulna from blocking convinced me that pads were a good thing Blum 3 I didn't use a mouth guard until senior year of college, and never a helmet. We also almost never did points sparring either; we just lined up in two lines, sparred for 3 minutes, then everyone stepped to their right and we did it again, continuing for about 45 minutes. This generally meant that you'd spar the entire class, from yellow belts up to the two instructors, no matter what rank you were. Typically the higher belt would just work down to closer to the level of the lower rank, and give the occasional pointer; that does not, however, apply when the lower rank is laughing after kicking the higher rank in the cajones. Then it turns in to more a forceful lesson on etiquette Blum 3

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

As for personal preferences in gear, I *have* to wear a mouthguard because I've got about $18,000 invested in my mouth. That's right, I am a human cyborg! (4 dental implants).

No one in our dojo wears shin guards, but I'm tempted to start wearing some anyway because I hate it when I go to do a roundhouse kick, or use my leg as a block, or something similar, and the other person does too, and we end up whacking shins together. Nasty!

fairnymph's picture

Embodiment

Capriox wrote:
Re: original topic of breats & sports - I am glad that I'm an A/B. I just wish I wasn't an A/B in the land where most non-tailored woman's clothing is designed for the B/C crowd...!

EXACTLY. I am right on that line and completely agree. The worst is gaping in dresses. Sad

Capriox's picture

Embodiment

Yes! And really, halter-top anything sucks. Which is annoying, because I want to wear halter-tops to show off my shoulders =/

fairnymph's picture

Embodiment

So I know just what you mean. The bonus is I can wear spaghetti strap tank tops with shelf bras and they totally work. Smile

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

and when do we get to see you work it? }:)

TheBoy's picture

Embodiment

somewheres, there's pictures of her in corset...site-search functions are wonderful things. I, however, am too lazy.

NorthwoodsMan's picture

Embodiment

Oh yes. I've seen them. Two different photo shoots worth... :jawdrop:

Jacona's picture

though my argument is if they love boobs, then they can take them home and watch the boobs jiggle. If they're around me it must be for something else because I sure don't have anything to shake!

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