""

Chapter 33 | The Last Royal Mistress

Respect and Responsibility

Temmin ate his lunch in solitude, bolting it down without paying much attention to what he ate. He moved to the green velvet couch and stared up at the carvings on the ceiling beams thinking indistinctly about his mother until Jenks came back. “Moody, are we, sir?” said Jenks.

“I s’pose,” said Temmin. “Can I ask you a question, Jenks?”

“I’ll try to have an answer, sir.”

Temmin sat up, propping his arms on the back of the couch. “You were at Whithorse when Mama got married. Just how unhappy was Mama when she had to marry Papa?”

Jenks turned from the little luncheon table and frowned. “Why would you ask me that, sir? Now of all times?”

“I can’t help thinking about Mama, I suppose, and we’ve been--studying this sort of thing. Teacher said Grandfather gave her to Papa like a possession to be traded.”

“Did he,” snapped Jenks. “I’d suppose that crow would know.” He rattled the dishes a little harder than he had to as he stacked them on the cart. Jenks turned abruptly, arms folded. “Did he tell you whose idea it was for your parents to marry?”

“He never came out and said it, but he made it sound as if it were Grandfather’s idea.”

“It wasn’t,” said Jenks. “It was Teacher’s. He was the one who arranged the whole thing. He even got me--well, he arranged it all. I’d really rather not talk about it.”

“But how unhappy was she?”

“No one was happy about it but your grandmother and your father. And Teacher. I say again, Your Highness, I would really rather not talk about it. Excuse me.”

Temmin watched Jenks through the door, then flopped back down on the couch. Wonderful, Temmin, you’ve upset Jenks. But then, what could he have expected, asking a question like that--what was he thinking? He wondered how unhappy Jenks had been to see his love married off to another man. What puzzled him, though, was how little he’d ever suspected that something had once existed between Mama and Jenks. He’d seen his mother and Jenks together every day. Of course, they might just have been extraordinarily discreet. But why had Mama turned to Ibbit when Jenks had been right there, if something hadn’t happened to change things? Obviously Mama wasn’t only a lover of women--she was carrying a child! Why would Papa have allowed Jenks back into Whithorse if there’d been any possibility of them picking back up with one another? Maybe Papa didn’t know. But Papa knew everything! It was a mystery, one Temmin could never ask Jenks about directly. That would be uncouth, as Jenks himself would say.

And then there was Teacher. All this throwing around of women as property, when he treated Mama like a showhorse himself! Words must be had!

“Say, I want to have a word with you!” he announced as soon as Teacher re-entered the study. “What exactly was your role in this whole giving Mama to Papa business! Jenks has a different account of it than you do!”

“What is the good colonel’s account?” said Teacher, settling on the arm of the couch. “And I can’t imagine what possessed you to be so cruel as to ask him that question, Your Highness, especially with your mother so ill.”

Temmin blushed, but said, “Jenks says it was all your idea.”

“Not entirely,” said Teacher. “I certainly thought it was a good one, and I was the one would made the arrangements, yes.”

“It’s awfully strange that you would go on and on all the time about how wrong it is to treat women as possessions and take away their choice and all that, and yet go along with taking Mama away from Jenks and Whithorse like that!”

“Did I ever say how wrong it was?”

“What?” said Temmin, open-mouthed. “That’s all you’ve gone on about!”

“No, I’ve merely drawn your attention to the practice, and the lack of choice women have in this world. You’ve drawn this conclusion yourself.”

Temmin leaped off the cushions. “I have not! You’ve made it very clear it’s wrong!”

“Have I? The question, Temmin, is not whether I’ve said it, but what you believe. Do you believe it’s wrong?”

“How can anyone think taking someone else’s choice away is a good thing?” said Temmin.

“You’ve done it.”

Temmin cringed inwardly, thinking of Mattie, but pressed on. “I know better now! And you! You’ve done the same thing!”

Teacher leaned in with fierce eyes and lowered voice. “And how much choice have I had, young Prince?”

Temmin stepped backward toward the windows. “Well--how much choice does anyone have! How much choice do I have! I don’t want to be king that much--I don’t think I’ll be that good at it--but I have to be! There’s no one for me to abdicate to but Papa’s brothers, and I’m certainly not going to do that!”

“There’s your brother.”

“Who isn’t even born yet,” said Temmin, pacing. “And who knows what kind of man he’ll turn out to be. A fine thing if he’s a Hildin, or a Warin the Foolish!”

“Why would you care if he were, if the country and ruling means so little to you?”

Temmin stopped, nearly tangling himself in the fringe of the rug. “Of course I care about the country, I live here! All I’ve heard since I can remember was how smart Seddy is, and how thick I am! That’s why I shouldn’t be king!”

“So you’re trying to save the kingdom from yourself.”

Temmin threw his arms up. “You’re making me sound ridiculous!”

“Because you are ridiculous, Temmin.”

“Excuse me?” said Temmin, putting his hands on his hips.

“There is an alternative to useless despair,” continued Teacher. “To begin with, your head is currently as thick as the walls of the Keep, but not with stupidity. You’re not as bright as Princess Sedra, true, but very few people are. You’re an intelligent young man. Your problems are youth and self-absorption, which are nearly the same thing. It’s amazing how much smarter and more discerning one becomes when one grows up and begins addressing the world outside one’s navel.”

“Navel--!” Temmin’s face turned an uncharacteristic shade of purple.

“The only question for you right now is, will you grow up? You were born with a responsibility. We’re all born with responsibilities. Yours are greater than most. You will hold a good third of our world and its peoples in your hands when you become king. It doesn’t matter whether you think Sedra would do a better job, because she can’t do the job at all. But think on how she got that way. She wasn’t born with knowledge and discernment. She studies. You can either complain about your sorry lot in life--your sorry, sorry lot, filled with power, wealth, and comfort--or you can get ready for it.” And with that, Teacher rose from the arm of the couch and sat down again on the couch itself, slender legs crossed.

“I think you’d better leave, before I punch you in the face,” said Temmin.

Teacher laughed, an unfamiliar, maddening sound. “You’ll make the attempt, you mean.”

“I sometimes wonder why you show me so little respect!” said Temmin.

“I sometimes wonder when you’ll earn it.”

Temmin yanked his tutor upright, grabbing hold of the crisp white shirt beneath the black robes. He threw the promised punch at Teacher’s head, only to feel his fist crack against something hard not two inches from the hated face. He dropped his grip on Teacher’s clothing, hissing in pain. “Pagg’s balls! Ow! Harla take you, what did you do?”

Hands in pockets, Teacher said, “I hardened the air around my head. It takes skill--an ordinary magician can suffocate himself if he’s not careful. I’ve seen it. Tragic.”

“Why’d you do that!”

“I should think that’s evident. I really didn’t care to be punched in the face, as you put it.”

Temmin sat down hard, bruises forming on his hand. “I’m sorry!” he said. “I’m making everyone angry today, and I can’t stop, and I’m just...” Tears finally spilled from his eyes.

“You’re worried about your mother,” said Teacher, leaning forward. “Two things I want you to take from this incident. One is that you can’t afford to lose your temper like that. You may get angry. Everyone does. But you may not let yourself lose control like that.”

“Brother Imbert said something like that this morning. He said that fighting and an--an agitated mind, I think he put it--didn’t mix.”

“Nothing mixes with an agitated mind, Temmin.”

Temmin gave a long, snotty sniff, mumbling apologies; he fished out a handkerchief and wiped his nose. “What’s the second thing?”

“The second thing is this.” Teacher reached out a hand and pulled at the air; Temmin’s chair, with Temmin still in it, scooted smoothly across the room and bumped to a stop in front of the couch. Teacher gently helped Temmin to his feet. “You will have control of me. You’ve only seen a fraction of what the magic can do, and then primarily in the stories. You don’t understand what I’m capable of. But you will be. You will have power of many kinds--magical, military, and financial. Many of your ancestors didn’t use these powers, they squandered them. It wasn’t limited to Warin the Foolish, and I don’t think you want to follow down that path.”

Temmin turned away to the windows. “Did his son rule well?”

“Per? He ruled tolerably well, by some measures. He had a hard job rebuilding the country, and his first order of business was abolishing the position of Royal Mistress. There hasn’t been one since.”

“And Lisset? Is there any more to the story?” Temmin ran his fingers down the cover of the old red book.

“Her story is done.”

“Did she just live on the plantation the rest of her life?”

“Eventually Harritson died, and his son turned her out. She went back to Deneen, where her cousin Honor Ford helped her find a place at a Mother’s House. It was the best Miss Ford could do. Lisset died not long after in a plague. She was 35.”

Temmin felt an odd lump in his throat, and forced it down. “But what about Bear? Did she take him with her? Did she ever free him?”

Teacher smiled. “Bear’s story ended more happily. He was so trustworthy that over time he became the plantation’s majordomo. He fell in love with the daughter of his old friend the cook, and when Lisset left for Sairland, Harritson’s son told Bear he was welcome to stay if he wished. Lisset officially freed him, though he hadn’t been treated like a slave in years and everyone had all but forgotten. She insisted he stay on where he was happy. He took the name Bear Ototo, married his love, and lived out his days among the orange trees. He died somewhere around age 80, in his sleep, surrounded by his children and grandchildren, and their children. Bear and Lisset always missed one another, all their lives. He was the child she never had, and he loved her like a son.”

“Good,” said Temmin, blinking back different tears. “That’s good. He was a good man.”

That evening, just before dinner, there was a knock on Temmin’s door; it was Winmer. “His Majesty has asked me to tell you that the painting of Neya you asked about is yours, Your Highness. Just tell me where you’d like it hung, and I’ll have the footmen take care of it.”

“The painting of Neya?” said Temmin.

“Yes,” said Winmer. “Porfino’s ‘Neya Beholding Her Beauty in a Mirror,’ sir.”

The painting of Lisset and Bear, thought Temmin. “No,” he said aloud, “that’s all right. Tell Papa I appreciate his gesture very much--it’s very kind--but we’re done with our study of the period for now. Perhaps later.” Winmer bowed and left the room.

“That’s a rare and beautiful painting, Your Highness, one of the jewels of the Keep’s collection,” said Jenks as he helped Temmin into his dinner jacket. “Are you sure you wouldn’t like it hanging here?”

“I’m sure,” said Temmin. To himself he added, I just don’t have the heart for it now.

The Intimate History books are drafts. Keep that in mind as you read. A fully edited and revised version of each book will appear beginning in 2010.

Scryer's Gulch stands and falls on its own, a true soap opera. Never look back, never revise, just make shit up to explain those plot holes away! Yeehaw!

Creative Commons LicenseAn Intimate History of the Greater Kingdom and Scryer's Gulch by Lynn Siprelle writing as MeiLin Miranda are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.

Comments

Pikachu42's picture
Supplicant

WOW!!!

I loved this, I really did. I never would have thought Temmin would have tried to hit Teacher, but when one is very upset uncharacteristic actions occur. I can vouch for that myself. I like how Teacher made Temmin aware that it was Temmin's own notions of right and wrong coming into play and not Teachers. I like these glimpses of Temmin growing up.

Nothing of me is original. I am the combined efforts of everybody I've ever known. -Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters

angelsdescendants.wordpress.com/
emotionalcutter.wordpress.com/

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

I'm kind of expecting...

That he'll be punished for it later. Oups

Doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd be able to get away with, sick mother or not.

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Pedes's picture
Postulant

I'd say

he already got part of it; I'd say his knuckles are far from untouched now Eye-wink

Because why not?! #Oh, look, a webcomic!#

Gudy's picture
Embodiment

I'm not so sure...

... about that. Yes, he kinda deserves a bit more punishment than bruised knuckles for that, but on the other hand Teacher is probably more interested in Temmin learning that lesson than in punishing him, so maybe having to run around with bruised knuckles for a while might be enough of a combination reminder/punishment, as far as Teacher is concerned.

Laureril's picture
Postulant

Bruised knuckles?

You forget that he probably has to go spar tomorrow. Yeouch!

kawaiikune's picture
Embodiment

I'm not sure...

that I agree. It really does seem like Teacher is leading Temmin to those conclusions, even if he wants Temmin to believe that they are his own. It would be difficult for him to teach a history like this without putting a spin on it in their conversations, and it certainly seems like he agrees with all Temmin's conclusions.

TheBoy's picture
Embodiment

Quite. Have some points. I

Quite. Have some points.

I had a professor like this...
whose points I strongly disagreed with--but he taught the course from the conclusion, but wanted us to think it (more or less) inevitable.

I thought it evitable.

It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan

NorthwoodsMan's picture
Embodiment

lessons learned...

If Teacher were to simply spell out directly the lesson and ont let Tem come to his own conclusions, he wouldn't retain the lesson and repeat his ancestor's mistakes. By making Tem think he's comming to the conclusion himself, he's more likly to remember the "right" thing when it's his time to make a choice. Little things like choosing a wife, freeing Teacher, etc...

PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals

A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

kawaiikune's picture
Embodiment

Thanks :)

And, yeah, it drives me nuts when professors do that.

NWM, that may be true, but he should at least admit to doing it Sticking out tongue

manoki's picture
Supplicant

I do that all the time

People learn things much better when they "figure it out" themselves than when I tell them things. I think the best teachers provide the scaffolding for students to build the knowledge. Handing out bricks and telling them where to put them is just a waste of time, IMHO.

Epikouros's picture

Which raises the question of

Which raises the question of who (or what) composes the "Intimate History"? Why does it depict some incidents and brush over others? We know it concentrates on the characters and private lives of kings, queens, and courtiers, but what other perspectives shape how it portrays things?

kawaiikune's picture
Embodiment

It seems like...

the "Intimate History" was written by the Teacher and the Traveler Queen, so presumably theirs.

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

I dunno, how would Teacher or

I dunno, how would Teacher or Maeb know about scenes like Lisset & Ototo in Alzeh? I wonder if instead of writing it out by hand, the Teacher can order it to somehow pay attention to certain people and magically absorb their stories.

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

kawaiikune's picture
Embodiment

He can also...

look through mirrors. That could plausibly give him insight like that, but I suppose he could also have just asked Lisset or Ototo, or gotten her history from the King, since he probably wouldn't have known to look at her before she was the Royal Mistress.

The Which's picture
Supplicant

But...

Warin stayed far, far away from mirrors, and the book knew what happened to Emmae when she was with him.

(I say the book knew because I think the book *does* know what happens; Teacher just reads it.)

Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.

nashira's picture

*sniffles* Oh, Temmin. You

*sniffles*

Oh, Temmin. You silly goose of a boy!

Vayshe's picture
Petitioner

temin trying to hit teacher

temin trying to hit teacher just kind of made me snicker.

-The slave thinks he is freed from bondage, only to find a stronger set of chains.

Renki's picture

The end of the chapter had me

The end of the chapter had me with tears in my eyes, well done Mei

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

Woot! Teen-age Temmin roller

Woot! Teen-age Temmin roller coaster!

That was good, although it would be still be better if someone helped Temmin figure out that sitting around festering over his mama isn't helping anyone, and gave him a few ideas of what he could do instead. This is the first time he's had to deal with this kind of crisis and he could use a few pointers.

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

Shade's picture
Supplicant

Awwww

This whole chapter is just . . . awwww. Poor Temmin. Poor Jenks. Poor everybody . I'm glad Teacher is talking some sense into Temmin.

Yay for Bear though!

TheBoy's picture
Embodiment

Fan Service!

The update on Bear...very nice. Eye-wink

(Even if it wasn't in response to our many questions.)

I enjoyed the chapter--poor Temmin, so so upset.
Also, I really liked the Teacher-Temmin dialogue--it's interesting to see Temmin drawing the conclusions we do.

It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan

Jacona's picture

sympathy

Teacher is right in demanding something to respect in Temmin before just giving it to him. Even though they are bound together by whatever forces move Teacher, it may be one of the few true perspectives that Temmin will have. Poor Jenks though, in a way I feel that kind of love [most maudlin but truest] is the happiness of the person. Best if shared but with the circumstances, Jenks can try and do what he can.

But my sympathy has to lie with Lisset. Some part of me thinks that her life may have been shaped by her looks and her personality for a glittering decade at most. But the rest has either been under control of a father she did not respect, a husband she did not choose, or in the end as a woman used and discarded. Could we say her life was happier or better then if she stayed with her husband and simply became angry and shrewish for the rest of a long life?

No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Hmm, it seems I must say something unpopular yet again

I really didn't like Teacher at all in this chapter. What a self-righteous hypocrite. "Oh, woe is me who has no choice in this world!" Boo-fucking-hoo. As if that makes it okay at all to restrict someone else's choices, someone who already had all too little.

Also, I was rolling my eyes all through the "be respectable to earn respect" exchange. I would make a remark about pots and kettles, but he's already wearing black, isn't he?

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

TheBoy's picture
Embodiment

counting backwards: (a)

counting backwards:

(a) Teacher doesn't need Temmin to respect him. He needs obedience, attention, and careful thought.

(b) Teacher is, as best I understand, under a significant compulsion to serve the interests of Tremont, and to obey its King (and protect the King and the bloodline). As such, criticizing him for restricting others' choices without knowing the bounds of his independence is iffy.

It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

On the other hand

(A) Temmin has no need for Teacher's respect either. As Teacher himself points out in this chapter, he has no choice but to give Temmin access to every bit of magic he possesses. Whether or not he respects the king is irrelevant, his compulsion stands.

(B) While we're on the subject of his compulsion, it makes no difference on the subject of Ansella and Harsin. He tells us specifically that he thought it was a good idea, and made the arrangements. If he was so dismayed at the lack of women's independence, it stands to reason he could have at least tried to talk Ansella around to it. There's no indication he made any such attempt. And so, I find myself having no sympathy for his "I have no choice either" whine-fest. Two wrongs don't make a right, as the old saying goes.

And isn't the way he side-steps and turns the whole conversation back on Temmin suspect in and of itself? There seems to be an attitude on this board that Teacher is infallible and everything he says is automatically taken at face value without suspicion. Personally, I occasionally find him to be a bit of whiny bitch. If he hates his job so much, why doesn't he do something about it? When he was ordered to kill those generals, he made it quick and painless. It seems to me he could find more ways to sidestep his orders in this manner, but it appears he doesn't. I also call bullshit on his protestation that he loves all his charges, but that's another matter.

Oh, and as an side--if Teacher needs obedience, what has he done that shows himself to be worthy of such unquestioning loyalty? Not a damn thing.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

BCT's picture
Devotee

Ouch

What a scathing tongue-lashing you've given Teacher.

"If he was so dismayed at the lack of women's independence, it stands to reason he could have at least tried to talk Ansella around to it."
I think Ansella would be smart enough to recognize someone patronizing her. She had no choice in the matter, and pretending otherwise would just piss her off even MORE, I think. So why should Teacher have bothered?

"And isn't the way he side-steps and turns the whole conversation back on Temmin suspect in and of itself?"
Well Teacher IS Temmin's...well, teacher. It's Teacher's job to make sure Temmin's head isn't filled with fluff.

"if Teacher needs obedience, what has he done that shows himself to be worthy of such unquestioning loyalty? Not a damn thing. "
Have you read Book 2? Teacher was loyal to Macca for all her days, even when she was exiled. From what we know, Teacher is somewhere around a 1000 years old perhaps. Maybe Teacher is just a leeeetle bit wiser than you give credit?

- BCT

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Keep the patronizing to yourself, please

I didn't say Teacher should try and patronize her, but that he should have had a talk with her about it. If nothing else, it would have given him some ground to stand on during this conversation. He doesn't get to talk about his lack of choice while doing the same thing to someone else. That's all I'm saying. It's a typical "Do as I say, not as I do," type attitude, and it's hypocritical in someone trying to instill some sense and decency in another person. The only thing it accomplishes is making him look like a two-tongued douche bag.

Also, Teacher and Macca has precisely what to do with Teacher and Temmin? The situations could not be more different. Macca was a ruler in her own right (for awhile at least) that totally spurned Teacher's advice until it was too late. Temmin is a young royal idiot who is capable of missing the point entirely on his own without locking his adviser away somewhere.

Oh, and yes, I have read book two.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

MeiLin's picture
Most High

one thing to think about

Well, two.

One is that we always assume that others' intentions here are good. Just keep that in mind. Not saying you've done anything wrong, I just like to throw that reminder out now and again.

The second is, how do you KNOW Teacher didn't say anything to Ansella?

MeiLin's picture
Most High

I might also add

...that it didn't matter whether Teacher spoke to her or tried to coax her into it; it was going to happen, no matter what. Politically, it was absolutely the best match Harsin could have made, rather like Sedra and Brinnid, and as counselor, Teacher saw that.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Oh, I wasn't saying that

Oh, I wasn't saying that anyone was being patronizing, only that I never said *Teacher* was. I can edit that post subject, if you like?

As for the second item, I certainly have no solid proof of anything. It just seems from the exchange that he didn't, but maybe I'm assuming too much and reading into it.

I guess to me, the fact that it didn't matter ultimately didn't matter. I just feel that he should have made the attempt anyway, if for no other reason than to say that he understood how he felt about the lack of choice or something.

EDIT: Oh, I guess I can't edit that subject bar. Why do some posts have the edit feature missing?

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

TheBoy's picture
Embodiment

once someone replies, you

once someone replies, you lose the ability to edit...

otherwise, conversations could get awkward. Eye-wink (I disagree with where you said X. "I NEVER SAID X!!!") (oops)

It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Gotcha

I always thought it was kinda cowardly when someone edited after they offended someone, but now the time I need to edit and I can't! Lol. Life, it is funny that way.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Andrea's picture
Postulant

I get your point, but what

I get your point, but what could he have said to her? "This marriage was my idea. I'm so sorry that the rules that govern my behavior forced me to propose it to the rulers of Tremont. If I could have stopped it, I would have"?

That sounds more like a plea for forgiveness than anything else. What would Ansella gain from knowing it? I suppose it would be nice to know that there was someone who would have prevented it if they could have, but Ansella would probably be too devastated and heartbroken to feel much sympathy for Teacher. I suppose he could have tried to offer a listening ear, but maybe he thought that Ansella would rather deal with her feelings on her own. I sometimes try to give people their privacy in situations like that.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Saying anything to her would

Saying anything to her would not have changed anything, yeah, I get that. That's not the issue. The issue is, this entire passage seems hollow to me because he didn't say anything. Both his points about respecting women's choices and earning respect seem lost when he treats other people like cattle. All I'm saying is, it rather seems like he doesn't have the ground to stand on to make this particular point. It smacks of hypocrisy to me, and that's a pet peeve of mine. But then, like Meilin said, I don't really know that he didn't, I'm just assuming so from the information provided thus far. If I knew for certain that he had I would feel better about this whole thing.

Although, let me just say this: I don't believe that anyone is perfect, and Teacher least of all. If there was a shade of hypocrisy to his character it would give him some depth beyond the tortured-soul-mysterious-past thing, which is all we have to go on just now, and tends to loose me here and there. More character depth can only be of the good, especially when it's someone as front and center as Teacher inevitably is. But that doesn't seem to be the case, the narrative here seems to indicate that Teacher acted in the right.

(To Meilin's credit, when the tortured soul is done well, she does it really well. The story-in-the-story battle chapter was quite chilling and captivating.)

Maybe I'm making more of it than it is, it's certainly possible. I guess from now on I'll just keep my weird observations to myself.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

MeiLin's picture
Most High

no no no!

Don't do that! Seriously, Seth, I want to hear what you have to say. As for Teacher's part in Ansella's marriage, the idea was Harsin's father's, and was enthusiastically pushed by Ansella's mother. Teacher very much agreed with it and was tasked with bringing it about, as would have happened even if Teacher hadn't agreed with it.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Maybe you do...

...but no one else does, lol! I'm pretty much fine with that, by the way. I was just being dramatic earlier. I had a gay moment, ignore me.

Anyway, my basic point boils down to this: I guess it's in situations where nothing would change by talking about it that everything changes by talking about it. Just a simple "There is nothing either of us can do about this situation, but I respect you enough as a person to talk to you about it." Or maybe a "I respect that you are a person..." Just simple human decency, I guess, especially in a case where she's essentially being treated as less than human in the first place.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

TheBoy's picture
Embodiment

hey now! I like seeing you

hey now!

I like seeing you post--I don't agree with you too often, but that's healthy.

It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan

Andrea's picture
Postulant

I second TB

I was poking at your observation because I was curious about why you thought he should talk have talked to her, not because I wanted to prove you wrong or swoop to Teacher's rescue or something.

V's picture
Embodiment

You're almost there

I very nearly went off on you in epic fashion at several different points while reading the threads this far. That doesn't mean I don't want to hear what you have to say. It means that you need to temper your tone if you don't want people to reject whatever you're saying out of hand.

If you're firmly convinced your view of the world is entirely correct, all truths are self-evident, and the board really is a bunch of idiots--ok, whatever--keep your weird thoughts to yourself, as you said.

If you're convinced your views are correct and are prepared to defend them, present them in a controlled and rational manner and you'll have a serious chance of not only being right but changing minds and spreading that viewpoint. If you just want to start shouting matches and throw insults around, well, you come off looking like Temmin.

Teacher wrote:
Your problems are youth and self-absorption, which are nearly the same thing.
If it helps, call the first the Obama way of winning hearts and minds and the second the Bush way of winning hearts and minds. Also consider that you may not be completely correct, and be prepared to adjust your own views.

You can paint your perspective as "you against the world" and you'll be right, but that doesn't mean it's inevitable.

Wow! Sarcasm! That's original!

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Excuse me?

Would you care to point to a single instance where I say even once that my view is perfectly correct and that people on this board are idiots? If you have read this whole thread, as you claim, you will notice that I quite liberally sprinkle "in my opinions" and "I feels" and "for mes" and other such indicators that all of this is completely my opinion, and you are all free to disagree.

Even in my first post, which I'll admit it is not as well thought-out as the responses to it, both mine and others, I say "I didn't like Teacher...etc" and then went on to list my reasons why. Perhaps the strength behind my reasons came across greater than they sounded in my head, which I have already apologized for. As for keeping my weird thoughts to myself, I have already copped to saying that was only a moment of drama the thread would have been better off without. Meilin also pointed out another instance where something I said could be taken personally (the patronizing thing) I explained it was only in reference to that poster thinking something I was saying would have Teacher behaving in a patronizing manner.

I never started a shouting match, and I never threw any insults around, unless you count the instance where I call Teacher whiny and hypocritical. But I have never behaved with any sort of vitriol toward any member of this board, and I am offended by that implication.

In deed, hurting another person by my words upsets me so much at the very notion, that I twice expressed that nothing personal was meant, and Meilin assured me she understood.

So tell me, then, why you feel you are any kind of authority to "go off" on me in any fashion, epic or otherwise?

Also, you can keep your condescending analogy of Obama and Bush, thank you all the same. I was never concerned with winning hearts and minds, only with expressing why I was dissatisfied with Teacher this chapter. It turning into a debate was never my goal.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

V's picture
Embodiment

Clarification

Seth Gray wrote:
Would you care to point to a single instance where I say even once that my view is perfectly correct and that people on this board are idiots?
I'm not required to and I never said you did. I laid out two courses of action without making accusations. It's my opinion that the way you have presented your opinion is confrontational and likely to result in strongly-worded replies that would quickly degrade to a shouting match. I agree you didn't start one, but there was a lot of kindling and some gasoline fumes. Consider:

1. self-righteous hypocrite. "Oh, woe is me who has no choice in this world!" Boo-fucking-hoo...I was rolling my eyes all through...pots and kettles...

2. whine-fest. Two wrongs don't make a right...There seems to be an attitude on this board...whiny bitch...I also call bullshit...Not a damn thing.

3. Keep the patronizing to yourself, please...hypocritical...two-tongued douche bag.

I try to stay impartial in my posts but I probably overstepped on the previous one--I've gotten similar vibes from other posts you've made. I'm as much an authority to go off on you, Teacher, MeiLin, myself, my grandmother, or anyone else as you are. Which is to say--I can talk but you don't have to listen, and, of course, vice versa. I try to structure my posts where everyone can gain something from them but I don't always succeed.

I don't see how my analogy of Obama and Bush was condescending--I thought it rather fitting. If you don't identify with it, nevermind--at least you recognized it. If you want to express dissatisfaction because you want something changed, a more neutral tone will help. This is a pretty outspoken board and you may well inspire a debate in the process whether you wanted to or not. If you want to express dissatisfaction to hear yourself rant--that's the kind I'd suggest you keep to yourself.

Wow! Sarcasm! That's original!

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

*sighs*

Okay, thing number one: I swear. A lot. A so-called "profanity" in my post does not necessarily indicate any kind of heat to my argument. There's a similar situation in place with slang, such as douche bag. None of those things mean I was being confrontational or laying down any kindling. Whiny bitch was a bit much, I give you that, but still not intended with any kind of force. You try to structure your posts so people can get the most out of them, and that's entirely your call. I try to structure my posts to get my point across. I swear and use slang in real life, so there's no reason not to on the internet.

Thing the second: I don't consider calling someone a self-righteous hypocrite to be out of line--if it's true. Teacher's been trying to point out how using someone like on object is wrong whilst having treated someone like an object in the past. That's hypocrisy. When Temmin calls him on it, he replies he doesn't have a choice in his life either. That's self-righteousness.

Thing three: I have already explained (once to Meilin and once to you) that the "keep the patronizing to yourself, please" subject bar was in response to a comment that someone made about how Ansella wouldn't appreciate Teacher patronizing her. I didn't intend that Teacher should patronize her, but rather should have talked to her about in a frank manner. Therefor, the patronizing was a conclusion that poster arrived at independently, and not what I intended. That's all I meant by that.

And finally, that brings us to the conclusion. You think your analogy is fitting because you choose to. I personally don't think it has any bearing on this discussion. And as for the "at least you recognized it" comment, that would imply that it's worthy recognizing in some way, and I don't feel that it is. I never wanted to "win hearts and minds" or convince other people my ideas were right, or that they were wrong, or anything of the kind. I merely responded on a chapter with my thoughts on it. That's what reader feedback is for. I neither wanted things to change (though in another post I offered some ways I think might help) or to "hear myself rant." When I read over my post I didn't hear a rant, it was simply what I thought of Teacher's character in this particular chapter.

The point of commenting on online fiction is to let the author know what you thought. A debate is neither wanted nor inevitable, as you seem to think. The comments aren't intended at the board at large.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

Just a thought, from a

Just a thought, from a communication major graduate: if you don't want me or others to read heat or hostility into your comments, then go out of your way to make sure you don't come across that way. Swearing and rough terminology like douche bag might be casual to you, but on the average it's still considered inflammatory.

The internet doesn't just fail to convey tone; lack of tone also means that everything tends to seem more sarcastic/angry/ranty/harsh/blunt. Always assume people will read what you write in the most cruelly sarcastic and hurtful manner (this forum isn't that bad, but it still happens no matter how laidback a community is), and tweak your word choice appropriately.

V, that goes for you to. You should know better than get all 'het up' and post late at night on the internet too =P It's always a better idea to wait until the next day, after you've slept and chilled, to post aggressive comments or send that emotional email or whatever potentially flammable internet communication you wanted to send.

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Yeah, no

if you don't want me or others to read heat or hostility into your comments

I really don't care if anyone does or not, I was just clarifying that it isn't what I intended. And I'm certainly not going to go "out of my way" to avoid it. It isn't my job to hold your hand on the internet. (Not your like you in particular, your like you in general. It's terribly incorrect grammar, yes I know.) This is supposed to be an adults only board, so I'd think people could handle a little swearing. *shrugs*

Also, I hardly think douche bag is "rough" terminology. Everyone and their dog is saying it around where I live, and I live in two different towns. Also, also, "on the average" is an awfully subjective term.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

Actually...

You said it bothers you a great deal when your words are mistaken as hostile and hurt people. You said it a couple of times.

I am not easy to offend. Your original post managed to get me to perk an eyebrow, so for people who are more sensitive or less level-headed, it could easily be misinterpreted. I also swear a lot, but you'd never know it here. I curb it, not out of a desire to "hold your hand on the internet" but because I am mature enough to know that there are places where it's inappropriate or disrespectful. You seem like you're also a mature person when you're not on the defensive. Is it really that big a deal to self-censor a few things for the sake of clarity?

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

Yes V...

quit drunk dialing the internet. aaar!

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

kawaiikune's picture
Embodiment

But...

as demonstrated in the case of Warin, you're much more likely to live longer and do better if Teacher doesn't secretly hate you.

Marx's picture
Petitioner

Seconded.

Just wanted to add that myself. Also, a king's more likely to listen to his counselor and receive sound advice if they're on good footing with each other. Which in itself can really prolong the king's regency.

I myself don't think what Teacher said in this chapter was all that inadequate. Temmin was whining about how unfair Teacher was to his mother by taking away her choice, Teacher responded he can't really choose who he's bound to either.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Yes, exactly

That was my whole point above. Respect is a two way street. If Teacher wants to talk about earning respect, then perhaps he should bring something to the table that would qualify him to have that conversation, hmm?

And perhaps he can't choose who he's bound to, but he can choose to make the arrangements because he thinks it's a good idea without involving one of the parties in her own life. That's entirely his bad.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

manoki's picture
Supplicant

Teacher's motives

I think Teacher had some personal motives for getting Ansella & Harsin together. He wanted Ansella's genes and influence to create a perfect child whom he could mold into a king who would liberate him.

Vandole's picture
Postulant

One of the gods gave him a

One of the gods gave him a prophecy that said he would not be free until the arrival of the golden boy from Whithorse, so he may have believed it might lead to the prophecy's fulfillment. I believe that was part of the new prologue, and was originally introduced to us in Slagar's points story.

I'm no end table, I'm a nightstand.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Not helping his case

Which, really, just makes this whole thing worse, in my opinion. It elevates the situation from treating another human like cattle, to treating another human as nothing more than breeding stock. Not behavior I like to see in someone we're supposed to feel for.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

Teacher's job

Seth Gray wrote:
(Personally, I occasionally find him to be a bit of whiny bitch. If he hates his job so much, why doesn't he do something about it? When he was ordered to kill those generals, he made it quick and painless. It seems to me he could find more ways to sidestep his orders in this manner, but it appears he doesn't.

Teacher can't do anything about the job. As TheBoy said, the Teacher is under a (probably divine) compulsion to stay alive in the service of the kings of Tremont and to fulfill the king's every command. I checked, and Warin the Foolish explicitly ordered the Teacher to execute the two generals immediately, so the only wiggle room available was how the executions happened.

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

I think Teacher...

Serves his own interests as much as he is able, and he's not very able. Directly disobeying an order causes him great physical pain, we've seen this on two different occasions. For whatever reason, the enchantment placed on him is such that he can not be in the physical presence of Maeb. That was made apparent in book one when he has to escape through a mirror at her approach. It also causes him physical pain to attempt to convey information he's not allowed to, and the rules placed on him are sufficiently vague that he doesn't always know how much or how little he can say. We saw that in book two when he could no longer continue with part of the story.

For what it's worth, I don't think Teacher is a paragon of light. That he's enveloped in flame in the vision from Neya is disturbing. Flame is not usually a representation of good. The fires of hell, for example. In greek mythology it's akin to a forbidden fruit and kept from man, and Prometheus is horribly punished for stealing it. It's unpredictable and difficult to control, and thus in an unstable situation you are said to be playing with fire. It's also made very clear that Teacher and Maeb have been shaping the course of events, as much as they can, for years. Connin has received a harsh warning not to fuck it up, and Teacher has attempted to get various rulers to regain the magic, which is somehow necessary for his release (I can't remember if that's in the story or if it's speculation though).

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

kawaiikune's picture
Embodiment

I wonder...

if he's been ordered not to see/be near Maeb somewhere along the way, or if that's part of his original curse.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Ooh, that's an interesting

Ooh, that's an interesting thought. I hadn't ever considered that it could be just an old order that has never been revoked. Does his curse work like that?

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

NorthwoodsMan's picture
Embodiment

creations...

If I recall correctly, they had to work together on creating the book. So were they allowed to be together or did they have a go between that shuttled the book around?

PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals

A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

I took that part to mean

they created it together. They have been allowed near each other, it's very clear that Teacher cares very deeply for Maeb. I assumed the book was made before the curse/order. My theory is that it's part of the curse and is a punishment. I am also convinced that Teacher's self restraint as far as intimacy goes is because he's not allowed.

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Jacona's picture

Agreed

It make be part curse but also punishment, there have been hints that there is either significant pain to being in each other's presence. [I think it was in a bonus story] Or the inability to remain close to one another. In a way I think Connin [even if not their child] when he was being raised by both of them was sort of their conduit to each other. Silly and a bit romantic minded of me but there we go. But then again we saw how that one turned out.

Also about the whole respect for Teacher thing. He is a teacher, and clearly has access to much that Temmin can learn from. Practicality in my mind is that if Temmin wants to get better at ruling, it might be better to shut it and listen and give due respect to someone who can teach him. Some people can teach if they cannot practice, and Teacher has rather specific chains. He respects Brother Imbert because he can smack him. Same idea no?

No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

Teacher & Maeb not in same room

Just an FYi since I happened to re-read some of that section recently... The pain Teacher and Maeb suffer if they get too close is referenced twice in the first book: first when Teacher comes to get Warin from the Traveler's camp to go take on Hildin, and then the second time after Warin & Emmae defeat Hildin when Teacher must leave so Maeb can come give some parting words of wisdom or whatever.

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

NorthwoodsMan's picture
Embodiment

damnit...

Jacona wrote:
. He respects Brother Imbert because he can smack him. Same idea no?

Wait, Teacher smaked Brother Imbert? When did that happen? Puzzled

PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals

A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

English pronouns FTW

I think it was supposed to be read "He [Temmin] respects Brother Imbert because he [Imbert] can smack him [Temmin]."

ETA: now I'm wondering about a Teacher vs. Brother Imbert smackdown match. Teacher would have to accept some pretty severe constraints on magic use in order to make it a fair fight, though.

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

gah!

I keep double posting for some reason, sorry.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Oh, and Meilin

I hope you're not taking any of what I said personally. I have nothing but respect for you and writing, and on the whole enjoy this world you've crafted.

I do have the tendency to let my words run away from me, so if something is too strong or rude or something I'll certainly edit.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Enid's picture
Devotee

I <3 seth's ranty comments,

I <3 seth's ranty comments, they say all the things i'm thinking, and much more eloquently.

i think this particular set stands as a testament to how amazing meilin's writing is. i.e. the passionate discussion her characters and their motives can create.

apologies if this makes less sense than usual. friends don't let friends comment on discussions while drunk!

"I have heard the languages of the apocalypse, and now I shall embrace the silence" from Neil Gaiman's "The Sandman: Endless Nights"

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Tee hee

Well, I'm glad you think I'm eloquent. Not so sure about the ranty.

Yes, Meilin's writing is undeniably amazing.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

The Which's picture
Supplicant

While I loved finding out about bear...

I'm certainly thrilled to hear Bear came to no bad ends, but the paragraph where Teacher explains what happens felt a little forced to me.

Other than that, I really enjoyed the Teacher-Temmin exchange!

Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.

MeiLin's picture
Most High

I would agree

It was rather forced. Best I could do at the time, and there's always the rewrite. Smiling

Andrea's picture
Postulant

hee

I like Temmy's swearing.

"Pagg’s balls! Ow! Harla take you, what did you do?" Mad Onigiri is Mad!

Jacona's picture

Seconded

Somewhere in history people used to swear by a hagiographer's dream, the local bits of the saint in the church. "Saint Wilgefortis' beard!'

No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.

manoki's picture
Supplicant

why

does Temmin hate Teacher so much?

And why does Teach say that Temmin took away Mattie's choice? All he did was kiss her! I mean, I know one thing leads to another and there's no place to draw the official line between kissing and rape, but still, all he did was one slobbery kiss. Right?

And is there something more to Ansella giving up Jenks than just that Harsin allowed her to have female but not male lovers?

BTW, isn't June 6th "mid-2009"?

Vandole's picture
Postulant

In the rewritten prologue, he

In the rewritten prologue, he also fondled her and only stopped because of Alvo's intervention. It doesn't matter that it wasn't rape, it's about consent. Ansella didn't consent to marrying Harsin, and Mattie didn't consent to the kiss.

I'm no end table, I'm a nightstand.

MeiLin's picture
Most High

oh, leave me alone

Sticking out tongue

Smiling

I'm hoping to finish this dang book here pretty quick. I have a few things that tie in with Lisset's story that have to get finished. We're probably going to rush through Nerr's Day to get to that. I hope to be done with book 3 by the end of June and then go into hiatus to edit book one.

Temmin doesn't hate Teacher most of the time. Their relationship is going to be much more fleshed out in the finished books.

Temmin would have forced himself further on Mattie if he hadn't thrown up, but he was convinced she was consenting. Girls were not fully people to him yet.

The Ansella and Jenks story, and why Jenks wasn't a threat to Harsin in the end, is still to be told.

Kunama's picture
Petitioner

That dreaded H-word

Nooooooooo not the dreaded Hiatus!

On a totally different track, I think there's a side story on the Ansella-Jenks situation. Not the entire tale, but still.

TheBoy's picture
Embodiment

plus, my question from ages

plus, my question from ages ago:
TheBoy: From Jenks' perspective/What is Jenks' fondest memory from his romance with Ansella?

forthcoming among the bonus stories. Eye-wink

It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

On the subject of Teacher

I hate to spam, and I've already posted in the main column twice, but I started to type this in a reply to Mei and realized I was side tracking myself. So I'm posting it here because it's relevant to my post above.

Teacher, the effect Teacher is meant to have on the reader, works on and off for me. I go back and forth with it. I tend to think that the narrative as a whole could do with a little less Teacher fellatio. Show us some flaws, show us some wrestling with those flaws, show us something inside Teacher himself. He's not a character right now, he's a concept. His name is an occupation signifier. We know nothing of him beyond that. It's book three, that's too late in the game for this to still be happening, I feel. We can get a sense of his character without giving secrets away. So far we've only seen him react to external stimuli. Let's see a little something inside himself. He is, after all, a main character, there's no getting around it. He's in almost every chapter.

But in a series that revolves around character interaction, a very important character hasn't moved beyond concept stages, in my opinion. I'd almost say it was a telling instead of showing situation, but you haven't really told us anything. In which case it's an implying instead of showing situation, and implications are usually intentional and meant to be bread crumbs, I get that. Maybe it's just a slice too much of implying?

The battle chapter (which I've mentioned in other comments) works for me. He's ordered to kill those men and he does so, but he makes it as quick and painless as possible. Not only that, but he tells the men so, it's important to him that they know he'd rather not do it. And that works for me. That worked very well for me. It was real, it was human, it was something inside Teacher himself. I need more of that. We're supposed to be invested in the outcome of Teacher, and right now I'm just not. He's kind of a self-important shadow, and not much more than that. I would like to like him, I really would. But I'm just not there yet.

And all of that stuff was why this chapter rubbed me the wrong way. He barely operates as a person, so who is he to teach Temmin anything about the proper way to treat anybody? It's also why that respect exchange was just laughable. It's important that Temmin earns the Teacher's respect? Why? Because the narrative tells us so, and I need more than that.

This is all just my personal opinion, and I am profoundly uncomfortable saying it at all. If there is anyone qualified to be giving Meilin Miranda advice on writing I am sooo not that guy. But it's honestly how I feel, and you may do with it as you will. You can tell me to sit and spin if you like, and I'd probably agree with you. Eye-wink

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Shade's picture
Supplicant

Hmm

I was going to respond to your earlier comment, but reading this now I realize I originally misunderstood your intent. I think I can see where you're coming from, though I disagree on the matter of Temmin and Teacher's respect. Temmin is a spoiled, generally rather pissy, teenage boy. Why should Teacher respect him as an equal and an adult? Yes he's learning and he's open minded, but in my mind he hasn't really *done* anything deserving equal footing with his instructor. I'm with you on the matter of Ansella, though.

You're right in that respect is a two-way street and I agree that more of the inner workings of Teacher would be nice to develop the character more, but I get the feeling this is part of the process of the drafts. I feel as though we're level with Temmin - we have to see Teacher as this infallible, neutral, ultimately bound personality and concept before we can see him as something more human, until Temmin has grown out of petulant teen-hood into an adult who can control his immediate feelings and has tangible responsibility. With editing and shortening up of time frame, I'm sure the development of Teacher will move at a more brisk pace.

Also in response to something you said earlier - I for one like it when somebody disagrees Sticking out tongue It gives us all something more to discuss. I do think, though, that the initial tone was coming across as slightly hostile, which is why I hesitated to respond earlier.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

I'm really not a hostile

I'm really not a hostile person. Not at all. I just come on too strong sometimes, and my wry tone of voice doesn't necessarily translate well into the written word. I'm kind of a smartass, you see.

Anyway, I guess I disagree that we have to see the same things Temmin sees. He is our POV character for the most part, yes, but I feel like there are things that Teacher should be accomplishing for the reader that are separate from those things Temmin picks up on. Maybe I'm not making any sense.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Shade's picture
Supplicant

Alas

lack of ability to convey tone of voice is the biggest problem on the internet Sticking out tongue.

And what you're saying makes sense, I'm just not sure I agree. I feel like the bonus stories we've been given (like the stuff with the twins) provide a better view than just Temmin without revealing more than they must.

Oh well Sticking out tongue. All any of us can do is wait eagerly.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Well maybe that's my problem,

Well maybe that's my problem, then. I don't read the bonus stories that regularly. I read most of the new ones as they get posted now, but I don't really go back through the older ones.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Wren's picture
Petitioner

I was the same

Then I went back and checked out all the bonus tales. Deffinitely worth it Smiling

Plus I tend to think of Teacher in a very Merlin-like way. I know there are plenty of tales about Merlin in his own right now, but for the basics of Arthurian lore, he was just the kings magician man right? I mean, he was like the deus ex machina and a tool for making sure things happened the way they needed to to reach the appropriate conclusion of the tales.

(I may be wrong, I am not as knowledgeable of Arthurian lore as I could be probably)

When life gives you lemons, send them back and demand muffins

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Now that I think about it

I think I started to go through them once, but just never got around to finishing the whole backlog.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

I think part of the reason

I think part of the reason we're missing out on some of the personal drama and characterization for the Teacher is because MeiLin is very deliberately making that character opaque. We readers are absolutely not allowed inside the Teacher's head. We only get what we are shown through the eyes of the characters around the Teacher. It's sort of an extreme version of the writing adage "show, don't tell." That sounds like what you're picking up on. She's basically making it harder on herself on purpose Eye-wink

Maybe MeiLin could or should put in more showing since she's so determinedly not telling when it comes to the Teacher. We already have some good examples such as the battle scene you mentioned, and also in bonus stories like the Teacher's whole rescue of and subsequent relationship with the Obby twins. I know I would love to see more Teacher-Temmin interaction when they're NOT in the middle of a crisis/drama. Or Teacher in a council session with Harsin and his other advisors. Or Teacher interacting with Winmer (I assume there's quite a bit of coordination there, at least on some topics).

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Oh, I think Meilin is

Oh, I think Meilin is absolutely holding as much to the vest as she can, and that's certainly her prerogative. I'm just saying that for me, personally, I need a little bit more than that. I get what emotions Teacher is supposed to evoke, I'm just not feeling them myself yet. I don't feel like I know him enough to care, if that makes sense.

On the matter of the Obby twins, yes, that's another one where Teacher worked for me. That and the battle chapter. Two instances out of three books where it worked for me. Maybe part of it is my issue, okay most of it is probably my issue, but I'm just saying that on the whole Teacher kinda falls flat for me.

Or maybe I just think weird things.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

Oh well, a little ambiguity

Oh well, a little ambiguity toward the Teacher isn't a bad thing, then. That's how pretty much everyone in the story feels about the Teacher anyway. It's just a lot of us readers are sure that MeiLin is going to have the Teacher turn out to be some great, utterly tragic hero in the end, but that's just our assumption. It could end up biting us in the ass in the end. I don't think it will, but that's just my speculation Eye-wink

I just wasn't sure if you knew about what MeiLin said below and elsewhere, with the whole "no Teacher POV" official line.

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

MeiLin's picture
Most High

these are valid criticisms

Nettah the Edittah and I have discussed this, and I hope to get it better in the revision.

Here's the issue: You're just not going to be allowed inside Teacher's head. Period. Not until the end. There was a discussion in a different thread on how like the Doctor Teacher is (which is to say, only a little). One way in which they're similar is that we never really see what's going on inside the Doctor's head. We get glimpses, and we know who he is, but his point of view is never apparent. He is essentially an opaque character, unknowable in his alienness. We don't even know his real name. When I wrote fanfic, I NEVER wrote from inside the Doctor's head. His POV is almost sacrosanct.

You should keep that in mind, at least when reading the draft: Teacher's POV is unknowable at this time, alien, and nameless. Not literally alien, but you get the idea. I hope to do a lot more "showing" of Teacher's personality in the rewrite.

Thanks for your thoughts, they are appreciated.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Not much of a Dr. Who fan

Which might be blasphemy to say around here. Sticking out tongue

Anyway, I'm not really saying we need to get inside his head, per se, but there are ways to give us glimpses of what's going on inside it without just telling us, I guess. And I hope I haven't hurt your feelings or anything through out my comments on this chapter. It was certainly never my intention.

Also, I abuse commas. They should take me to court.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

MeiLin's picture
Most High

I am made of sterner stuff

Despite my meltdown this week over my friend. (I'm still not sure why it's affected me so deeply; I think it's because she was at one time a very important--critical--person in my life.)

I can take criticism as long as it's not the "you suck" variety, and even then, I am able to say, well, I'm not going to be to everyone's taste. I've been on the Internet a long time, my friend. Smiling

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

I figured you probably would

I figured you probably would be, but I would hate for you think that even if it didn't affect you.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Jacona's picture

Neither was I

Then I realized they film it where I live [minus london eye stuff] which leads to lots of 'Didn't so-and-so fall over that bench?' when watching the shows. It's a quirky sorta happy show, well worth coming home from a long day at work to.

No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.

Cheez-It's picture

On the subject of Sedra and Brinnid

MeiLin further up mentioned the political match of Sedra and Brinnid and I just can't help but say that I hope for Harla to take Connin ... sooner rather than later ... and that Brinnid won't be so darned fickle as to believe Connin's insinuations. After all, they could've been skinny-dipping in the local pond as kids. Or he could be a crazy stalker stalking her without her knowledge through any available mirror including her bathroom. He'd have a very good knowledge of her body then ...

I really hope it'll work out for them. It'd be nice to have at least one happy relationship in the royal houses of the 'present' time of that story

Kunama's picture
Petitioner

I'd never thought about that

Quote:
Or he could be a crazy stalker stalking her without her knowledge through any available mirror including her bathroom. He'd have a very good knowledge of her body then ...

I never really gave a second thought to magic through mirrors until you mentioned that. Now I'm all creeped out. Sad

A's picture
Postulant

Funneh thing,

As a 'tween, I used to involunarily imagine people could see me in mirrors, exactly how Teacher and Connin can. It totally squicked me out in the bathroom. I nearly covered the mirrors with towels before bathing. My pubescent imagination in overdrive was not an easy thing to live with.

Now that ya'll are convinced I'm bat crap crazy...I think the idea came from a scifi/fantasy book where the magicians all worked with mirrors, travelling through them, but they didn't reflect. To make a reflecting mirror in that universe would make anyone insane who looked into it, they were for magic alone. But I can't be sure if my galloping-away-with-me imagination came up with the stalker-mirrors before or after I read that book. So who knows?

Don't judge me. Your post jogged that memory, just thought it was funny.

Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common. --Dorothy Parker

The Which's picture
Supplicant

I was afraid of being watched in mirrors...

But mine was because I found out about 2-way mirrors. I was PETRIFIED about using dressing rooms in stores, and looking into mirrors in public places. I was ok with the mirror in my bathroom because I could open the medicine cabinet and check behind it, but in public I was certain I was being watched.

Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.

Shade's picture
Supplicant

*shudder*

I was/am the same way. I hate mirrors, absolutely despise them. They creep me out to no end. It's like big windows at night that aren't covered - I'm always expecting someone/thing to be looking at me from them with big horrible eyes. Urgh.

applejax's picture
Supplicant

I did the same thing

even in my own bathroom. I would turn around as if I was changing in front of someone, even though I knew that the other side of the mirror was just another part of my house. I've never known anyone else who did that, thank you for assuring me that I am not a (total) crazy person.

Imperfection is beauty; Madness is genius.
And it's better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

I was paranoid in a different way.

Once I became aware of some of my stepfather's kinks as a teenager (not because of any inapprpriate behavior toward me, thank goodness), I was totally paranoid that there were hidden cameras in the bathroom.

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

kawaiikune's picture
Embodiment

I used to freak out about that too.

My parents kept logs and things on the computer and logged all my IMs and other things, and I didn't find out about it until much later. After I found the logs, I was totally paranoid that they were watching me at all times. Their bathroom was right next to my bathroom, and the mirrors for both bathrooms were on opposite sides of the same wall. I was convinced for years that it was actually one two-way mirror, and that they were watching me all the time. I was forbidden to look go under the sink in their bathroom (which I found out later was actually because my mom kept all her tampons and things under there and she didn't want us asking awkward questions), and I thought the switch to turn her mirror into a window into my bathroom was hidden in the forbidden space under the sink. I was a really paranoid kid, but the computer thing kind of gave me reason to be paranoid. I got really good at spying on my parents, and assumed they were even better at spying on me. As such, I assumed that nothing I did would ever be secret, and the only time I felt like I wasn't being watched was when I was out with a friend or something.

MeiLin's picture
Most High

transparency

You've just made the best case for transparency in parent/child relationships I've ever heard.

TheBoy's picture
Embodiment

QFT

MeiLin wrote:
You've just made the best case for transparency in parent/child relationships I've ever heard.

for serious.

It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan

The Which's picture
Supplicant

transparency...

I have a friend whose teenagers can do nothing on their computers with out her finding out, but they know this. I don't know how much good it does to find out after the fact your kids are unsafe on the internet; it seems like if they know they are being monitored they would watch themselves more closely to begin with.

(although the it hasn't stopped the one boy; he has major impulse control issues.)

Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

I think getting them to watch

I think getting them to watch themselves more closely in the first place might be good enough. Something like "crime prevention" being better than crime punishment (not that they're committing crimes, but you get what I mean).

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

Are you sure

they were keeping the logs? I know MSN used to log all conversations by default. Last couple times I installed it I noticed that it's now an option asked for during the install process. Used to automatically do it, though. Kinda like web browsers automatically keep a history of where you've been?

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

n's picture

reference?

Following my usual ways, I'm not partaking in the discussion over the chapter (which I consider one of the better ones in the entire story, btw), but I have one question. A silly question, too.

*sillyness alert*

Is the title of he chapter in any way a reference to the Jane Austen-esque alliterations in titles? (like "Sense and Sensibility" or "Pride and Prejudice", later parodied in the Black Adder the Third series, in episode titles such as "Amy and Amiability" or "Dish and Dishonesty") It's just stuck in my mind... ^^'

MeiLin's picture
Most High

somewhat

But if I were to really Austen it, it'd be "Respect and Respectability." Smiling

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

I picked up on it

right away also. But I've been reading Pride and Prejudice and Zombies so it was on my mind.

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Wren's picture
Petitioner

Oooo!

How is it? I love Pride and Prejudice, and I love Zombies, and I have read the blurb for Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, and frankly I just don't know what to think! I am so intruiged, but can't get past thinking it is probably stupid in the extreme.
What's the style like? Is it silly? Rediculous? Unbelievable? Does it butcher the Jane Austen characters or stay faithful to what Ms. Austen may have intended for them to be like?

When life gives you lemons, send them back and demand muffins

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

The first thing you need to know is...

I disliked Pride and Prejudice. The story is good, the characters are alright, but I hate her writing. I find it to be boring. Perhaps it's the time period it was written in, I haven't read very many books from the late 18th/early 19th century. I know the story, and the Colin Firth mini series is on my list of stuff to watch, but I haven't yet. Whenever I go to the library and check, there's always one out of the four missing. You can only have 3 movies checked out at a time, so it would make sense... if it weren't for the fact that it's always the second or third one that's missing... but I've griped about the library enough to my friends, I don't have to do it here. At least, not outside of the gripes thread Sticking out tongue

That being said, it's Pride and Prejudice, but with Zombies. It's hard to describe it as anything else. The original writing is mostly intact with the odd zombie related comment thrown in and extra scenes depicting zombie fights. I'm not very far in, since I have several other books going at the moment, but while the scene I've gotten to is satisfyingly graphic, it's also very short. I don't know if the plot diverges from the original later on. The characters are all essentially the same, since the text is essentially the same, but I have seen a couple snarky comments thrown in. The one I can think of is Elizabeth pondering her exasperation over Mary prattling on about what she's read about pride at the beginning. Basically thinking my own thoughts about that particular bit of dialogue.

I can't give a more fully formed opinion than that. If you enjoyed Jane Austen's writing, and don't mind reading it a second time, then you will probably like it better than I have so far.

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

MeiLin's picture
Most High

I'm always sad

but understand when people don't like 19th century literature. It is stylistically very different from today's writing--wordier, with a larger, often archaic vocabulary, and odder, often archaic styles and sayings. Nevertheless, I myself found a great deal to be said for it, especially when it comes to subtlety.

Austen is the subtle puss of the world, and her jokes and wit often do not translate well to 21st century ears. The more you know about her time, the funnier she is. But it's possible to love and understand her where you are, and where she is. The same food tastes different to five different people, and the same book will "read different" to five different people.

kawaiikune's picture
Embodiment

I generally find...

Austen kind of boring, not because of her style of writing, but because of her topic. Everything seems to be about high society people and their ridiculous drama over who is going to marry who. The whole point of it seems to be a huge contest to see who can marry the richest, most handsome man, and what said man is doing with his money, and how lovely each girl looks in her fancy party dress. I just can't bring myself to care. Pride and Prejudice wasn't too bad, but that was more because I could identify with Elizabeth (and the structure of that family is identical to mine, including the roll each daughter plays), but in general, no one gets killed, nothing really unexpected happens, and the drama strikes me as painfully superficial (which is potentially because that's the way people really were). I even found some of the dialogue amusing, but it wasn't enough to carry the story for me. I actually really like literature from that period, it just needs to have a more gripping plot or a plot with more depth. I can really appreciate Austen's work as a very clear picture of society at the time, and as something of a historical document, and I can certainly see that it has value, but I can't bring myself to read it.

Maybe I'm missing something that someone can point out to me about why so many people love these books. I sort of feel like I just don't get it, and I'm missing out on something loved by generations and generations of people who like to read as much as I do.

Raigne's picture
Embodiment

Maybe that's what my problem is.

The book is character driven instead of story driven, I think. I like plot heavy. Flesh the characters out fully, sure, but I want to see what they do when there's a problem. I want to be told a story. This is probably why I like mystery and suspense novels, but get bored with the series when it becomes less about the crime and more about the characters and their drama. This is why I no longer read James Patterson's Alex Cross novels or Patricia Cornwell's Kay Scarpetta novels. So far the only crime series that hasn't lost me is Laurie R. King's Mary Russell series.

I also have yet to find a good Victorian mystery series, because of all the high society trivialty. I understand it's a big part of the period, and thus it's difficult to divorce it, especially when any sort of depth of character is obscene to the rest of the characters, and it's difficult to write a good story with people who can never have more than one dimension, but could someone at least try?

When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Wren's picture
Petitioner

perhaps

post a book review when you are done?

I have not actually read the book but I watch the movie (mmm Firthtastic!!!) at least once a year (about two weeks ago with my mum most recently)

I have read Vanity Faire though so I understand how formal the style of the period can be, and how dull all the society-ness can get (PLOT AND ACTION ARE GOOOOOD THINGS!)

I just really don't understand how zombies can possibly fit into regency era England along with Elizabeth as she comes to terms with her feelings for Darcy etc? So once you are done, I really do hope to hear your take on the meshing!

When life gives you lemons, send them back and demand muffins

Shade's picture
Supplicant

:D

I'm reading this too! I'm not really a fan of Austen either - I respect her body of work, and what it meant for a woman of her period to be writing in that manner, but I'm not all that into high society drama. I do love her little quips though, so I'm finding this book hilarious. I'm not as far as you, I think . . .haven't hit any suitably gory sequences.

Chaoticevildoesntlogin's picture

Bleh

I don't think either of them were at their best in this chapter, but I blame Teacher much more than Temmin- Temmin's a child, really. Teacher's way way older than "old enough to know better". Oh, Teacher. If he wants to punch you right now, think of when he knows. All his ancestors have reviled you for your secret, whatever it is...

Prophecy is so uncertain.

MeiLin's picture
Most High

just one comment

I love your handle. Smiling

Amy's picture
Supplicant

For the record

a) Seth, I like your views. you often cause me to think before I just automagically join in the "Teacher can do no wrong" line of thinking. I may not always agree with you, but I do like taking your views into account before I finish making up my mind on an issue. Let me add my voice in the plea that you continue to be you.

That said...

b) I do agree that Temmin has to prove himself worthy of respect before he gets it. I happen to believe that of everyone. I also draw a distinction between being respectful of age & wisdom, versus Respect between friends & equals. One is simple polite kindness that should be adhered to in most instances the other must be earned.

Temmin owes teacher the respect due to a teacher & elder, at least until he becomes ruler.

c) Ansella was due in my opinion enough respect from Teacher for him to have told her "I'm sorry my hands are tied on this. I didn't suggest it, but I do have to agree with it, I'll do what I can to help you live with this though."

It would not have been a plea for forgiveness so much as a show of respect for someone he had to have known would suffer.

d) I kinda think that Teacher is trying to educate Temmin enough that 1) he'll be a great ruler, & 2) he'll know enough when the time comes to use his authority to make teacher allow him to punch him in the face.

e) I both love & hate the way that Temmin brings up all of Jenks' old wounds by bringing up the way Ansella was forced out of his arms & into the marriage with Harsin. Talk about insecurity getting the best of a person; Wow, well told.

Anything that kills your inner-song is always going to be bad for you. - Personal Wisdom

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

On your point c) Teacher &

On your point c) Teacher & Ansella...

I dunno. Did Teacher and Ansella have any contact before the marriage was being arranged? (I'm guessing that Ansella probably knew that the then-king had an advisor called the Teacher that she had maybe spotted at a distance, but had they ever talked before?) If they were essentially complete strangers to each other, I don't see how Teacher owes Ansella any sort of "sorry my hands were tied" type communication. It's like saying Winmer should have apologized to Ansella for the arranged marriage, because he was the one that picked out Harsin's wedding clothes (or something). My understanding is that Teacher and Winmer just worked out the details in this case; the suggestion and final decision were made by the parents.

Also, I somehow don't think Ansella would have been at all receptive to a stranger coming up to her and saying "Yep, this forced marriage thing sucks, sorry I couldn't help ya," something I suspect that the Teacher has enough brains to have figured that out. IMO, the best thing the Teacher could've done in the case of Harsin and Ansella's marriage would've been to encourage Harsin to court Ansella properly (we don't know if Teacher suggested this at the time or not). We do know that Teacher supported Ansella's desire to raise the children herself at Whithorse...

Of course, if Teacher and Ansella knew each other before the marriage was arranged, then y'all can throw my "complete stranger" arguments straight out the window Eye-wink

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

MeiLin's picture
Most High

One more thought about Teacher and Ansella

Ansella got a concession in her marriage settlement; she would be allowed to raise the children as she saw fit. (This is a HUGE concession.)

Teacher made all the arrangements for the marriage.

Harsin would have been able to take all the mistresses he wanted anyway once they were married no matter what he said in the arrangements.

Nuff said.

Amy's picture
Supplicant

Re: Point C) & One more thought

Capriox, you are right I failed to take that into account.

& If Teacher arranged everything for the marriage then it sounds to me like not only was he trying to get the prophecy fulfilled, but to silently make a bit of amends to Ansella at the same time.

Anything that kills your inner-song is always going to be bad for you. - Personal Wisdom

MeiLin's picture
Most High

once again

Please assume the best intentions of one another; I really do think the vast majority of you are well-meaning. I don't like the way the tone of some of these conversations is trending.

Amy's picture
Supplicant

Umm

Wasn't that what I was doing?? Puzzled I thought I was anyway. Puzzled

Anything that kills your inner-song is always going to be bad for you. - Personal Wisdom

Capriox's picture
Embodiment

I don't think she meant your

I don't think she meant your comment on c). There's other stuff going on further up this thread (and in another) that I suspect she's referring too.

Supreme Minister of All Livestock

"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire

MeiLin's picture
Most High

not you :)

If I were addressing you, I would have replied directly to you (my post would have shown up as indented under yours). It was a more general directive to several people.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

Who, me?

Why, Ms. Miranda, whoever (whomever?) could you mean? I really should just stop responding, all I'm doing by continuing to hash it out is make myself look like a douche bag, but I can't seem to stop myself. I've never really given a damn cared very much about what other people think, which is usually good for my mental health, but occasionally backfires, as now. Sometimes I just shouldn't say words. Oups

So to anyone I may have offended, I am truly sorry. I never meant to hurt or anger anyone.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

MeiLin's picture
Most High

all I ask

of you, or of the other people who've gotten a little wound up in this thread, is to assume the best of one another. That's all. I don't want to make things worse, and I don't want to still conversation at all. I'm not going to lecture, I'm not going to hector, I'm not going to point fingers. I'm coming out of a shitty week and I'm still getting the shakes every now and again from it. Please, just be kind to one another, all of you.

Seth Gray's picture
Devotee

I really am sorry, I'll try

I really am sorry, I'll try to tone it down in the future.

Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!

Aphron's picture

Better for whom?

It seems to me that it would be better for the kingdom that Ansella blame Teacher for her marriage than that she blame Harsin.

I suspect Teacher might understand this. So perhaps he may be willing to bear her ire and ill opinion for the sake of the kingdom? To try to improve his relationship with her seems to run a very real risk of causing problems for Tremont, and she would gain little from it (and may actually be better off angry than being tempted to see Harsin as the enemy). The only person to really gain from such an interaction would be Teacher.

It seems that to Teacher, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, even if the few be Ansella, Temmin, or Teacher himself.

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