Chapter 29 | The Last Royal Mistress
The Guenor Rebellion
Temmin thought about Rose, Milla, and their respective kings all through lunch, saying little.
The people mocked Milla, but Creith was the one who sent his mother into exile, beat his innocent wife like a scullery wench, and treated his legitimate children like bastards. The people physically attacked Rose, but Warin the Fifth was the one who nearly bankrupted the country and spent time he should have spent ruling in playing sex games with his mistress. Neither king was reviled in the official histories, though they deserved to be, thought Temmin. Rather than reviling Creith, the histories attributed his mother’s great accomplishments to him, and Temmin now had grave doubts about the official version of Warin’s death. But everyone seemed to know of the notorious slut, the Rose of Alzeh, and loyal Milla ended her life shut away in the country far from her grandchildren, just as Macca had.
His thoughts wandered to Twenna Shelstone; he was finding it increasingly hard to be contemptuous of her--even though he didn’t really know her--and easier to be angry with his father. It was disturbing.
Harsin didn’t seem to mind Temmin’s silence. Nor did Sedra, who reappeared once more at table for frosty exchanges with their father. Their mother, however, had not. This, also, was disturbing.
“I don’t care what Lady Donnis says this time,” Temmin said to Teacher once he was back in his study, “I’m going to talk to Mama.”
“What are you going to say?” said Teacher, arms crossed.
Temmin flicked his head to one side and stopped his pacing in mid-stride. “I don’t know. Ask questions more than talk, I think, though she needs to know why the Shelstone’s really here.”
“Why does she need to know that?” said Teacher.
“She’s going to find out sooner or later, and one of us should tell her. The woman is going to start showing in a spoke--Mama shouldn’t find out from one of her ladies maids. Don’t you think she should know?”
“What I think is immaterial,” said Teacher.
Temmin stared sideways at his tutor.
“It’s immaterial when the King says it’s immaterial,” smiled Teacher.
“What if the King didn’t think it was immaterial?”
“But he does.”
“But what if he didn’t?” insisted Temmin. “Do you think telling Mama is the right thing to do?”
Teacher considered. “Knowing your mother, I believe it’s better she hear it from family, though hearing it from your father would not be conducive to peace in the Keep.”
“That’s understating the case.”
“But hearing it from you, or from one of your sisters,” Teacher continued, “might soften it--as long as you make it clear that she is not the last to know.”
“So you’re saying I should tell her?”
“I’m saying my official position is that of your father’s. She should not be told until he orders it. Will you tell her?”
“I don’t know yet,” Temmin admitted. “But I still want to see her. She wasn’t looking at all well when she vanished behind Donnis, and I want to know if she’s ill.” He ran a hand through his once-combed hair. “I don’t want to think about it for a while. Actually, I’ve been thinking about Rose, and about Milla. And no sarcastic comments!”
“Oh, I’d never,” said Teacher. “What about them?”
“Why did they take all the blame for the failings of their kings?”
“So you’ve noticed that, have you. Very good, Your Highness!” said Teacher. “Consider. Has it ever been easy for the people to criticize the King?”
Temmin sat down at the library table. “Not if that one beating I saw and what happened to that minstrel who made up the song about Rose are any indication.”
“They are,” said Teacher. “If the minstrel had kept his song to Rose and not said anything about the King, he might’ve kept his head, though he would have kept it in prison.”
“So...criticism of Rose was all right, but criticism of Warin was not, even though Warin was the one ruining the kingdom?”
“And so the people spoke against the Royal Mistress, but not the King directly. Think of it this way,” continued Teacher. “You’re familiar with the rudimentaries of the new steam engines?”
“The basics, I think.”
“What happens if the steam in an apparatus builds up without release?”
Temmin thought, then said, “The apparatus explodes, yes?”
“Correct, and before apparatus architects fully understood their devices, several lost their lives in explosions. They quickly conceived the pressure relief valve.”
“I don’t understand. What do steam apparatuses have to do with mistresses?”
Teacher sighed. “Criticism of a Royal Mistress relieves public pressure that otherwise might come to bear on the King.”
“Oh!” said Temmin. “It wasn’t intentional, was it? I can’t imagine kings hiding behind women like that.”
“Then you haven’t been paying attention. But no, it’s not a conscious decision for the most part.”
“I want to find out what happened to Rose,” Temmin said, opening the book.
“We must hear what happened to Warin and Per first,” said Teacher.
Warin reached Guenor with a fraction of his forces. Every nightfall on the long march, nearly five dozen would slip past the torchlight into the surrounding countryside, and while some of the camp guards killed the ones they could catch, others deserted their posts and fled with them. Word on the size of the rebel force was reaching the company; while King Warin fielded ten thousand men and a thousand cavalry, Prince Andrin Periander had three times again as many infantrymen, and more than twice as many cavalry. Worse, and what hastened the flight of the deserters: while the King had no Brothers with him, intelligence said the Prince did.
“I am King by right, and your recognition! Why would the Brothers refuse to stand by me, then turn around and side with my son?” fretted Warin to Teacher, who remained silent. “It’s not a rhetorical question, damn you!” said Warin. “Why!”
“I would assume,” said Teacher slowly, “that Farr instructed them to do so, and the Eldest Brother sent word to his forces in Corland and Kellen to follow the Prince.”
Warin paled and lay back in his cushions. “Pagg damn this foot!”
When Warin’s troops finally reached the border with Guenor, exhausted and footsore after 16 days’ march, his force had dropped by nearly a thousand men. But the cavalry stood fast, as was their tradition; it lost not a man to the tempting road home. “They’ve had at least two months to prepare their defenses, not counting superior force,” said one of the two colonels of horse to the other. “The cavalry always fights or dies--we never desert, we never surrender except under orders--but there’s not much we can accomplish this time but to die, I fear.”
The day of the battle, the King’s two generals surveyed the gathered enemy from a rise behind the camp; Ardenil saw nothing but a sea of spears, fronted by banks of archers protected by earthenworks bristling with horse-killing pikes. “I don’t see anything for it, Dantono,” said Ardenil. “We’re outnumbered, they have a battalion of Brothers, and they’re entrenched.”
“I don’t think they’ve even bothered to saddle their cavalry. I don’t see a single horse,” said Dantono, squinting. “All the platoons we’ve sent to scout their flanks have gone missing--I think they just fled into the woods! The rest of our men are on the brink of turning tail, Ardenil, we’re losing discipline with no way to enforce it. We’ve never faced anything like this. What do we do?”
Ardenil scanned the enemy again. Years of campaigning left him able to read the mood of an army even from this distance. He could sense their excitement, the confidence running through the rebel army, such a stark contrast to the dispirited men he was left with. I’m sending men to certain death, he thought.
Ardenil had been a soldier his entire life. The only reason he hadn’t stayed with the Brothers was that he could not forget his sweetheart, no matter how hard he tried; finally, he gave up his postulancy, went home and married her, and joined the King’s Army as an officer. I don’t mind dying, he thought; though leaving Elibetta a widow pained him, she would get his pension and his oldest son would care for her. No, it wasn’t the dying, it was the pointless slaughter of his men that made it hard to swallow.
Finally he turned to Dantono, his oldest friend. “We’d better see the King and try to talk some sense into him.”
Dantono shook his head. “Teacher’s been trying for weeks with no success, and we’ve been trying to change his mind since he raised the army.”
“Perhaps,” said Ardenil, “he will listen to his generals now that he sees what we face.” The two friends descended the rise and walked through the muddy camp to the King’s pavilion, the smell of horses, burnt bacon and spilled small beer drifting on the faint breeze. Ardenil knew the King’s ears were stopped with pride, and seeing the King’s face as they entered the tent confirmed it.
Warin’s retainers were strapping him into his armor as best as they could, as Teacher looked on. “You’re pinching me, buffoons!” said Warin.
“It still needs at least two inches to close, Your Majesty,” apologized the lead man. Teacher placed a slender hand on the breastplate; the man eyed Teacher skeptically. The breastplate seemed to melt and flow around Teacher’s hand. Teacher stood back, nodding at the astonished retainer who tried again. “Well! It fits now, sir!” he exclaimed. “Am I--I am right that this armor repels all weapons--that it is enchanted?”
“Now, whoever heard of enchanted armor?” said Teacher with a faint smile. The man shrank away from the figure in black, and returned to outfitting his King.
“Teacher,” resumed Warin, “you are to kill Corland and Kellen the moment you see them! Am I understood?”
“It isn’t as easy as all that, sir, but I shall try,” murmured Teacher. “For your part, if the time comes, will you be able to kill your son?”
“What d’you mean, if the time comes? Do you doubt our victory?”
General Dantono cleared his throat. “I’m afraid the battle is very much against us, Your Majesty. The chances are more than good that the Prince will carry the day.”
“I am also quite certain the Prince will not hesitate to kill you,” added Teacher. “It’s still not too late, to retire to some lovely backwater and abdicate to Prince Andrin, sir.”
“Become a country squire!” said Warin dismissively. “I can’t imagine my Rose being satisfied with such a life.”
“Indeed,” said Teacher. “Though you don’t have to worry about satisfying Lady Callant any longer. She has fled the country.”
“What! Harla take you, mind my foot!” said Warin, kicking at the hapless retainer trying to fasten greaves to his shins. “What d’you mean, fled the country!”
“I mean she has taken what she can carry and left with her servant Ototo for safer climes, sir. She is convinced you will be killed here today, and that her own death would follow shortly, if not at Per’s hands then at the hands of the people,” said Teacher, adding as Warin paled, “You have greatly underestimated the anger of the common folk, Your Majesty.”
“My Rose!” faltered Warin, eyes turned inward. “How can I fight without my Rose?”
“Sir, abdicate!” said General Ardenil. “There is no shame in living out your final years in comfort and peace!”
Warin straightened up, and for the first time in years looked almost noble. “No. You may lack faith, Dantono, and you may think slinking away is preferable to facing my disloyal son, Ardenil, but We shall win the day and We shall win her back! Teacher, We will send you out to find her, as soon as We have defeated these traitors and killed Per. We will not accept defeat, but We will fight to the last man, and in the end, stand victorious!” He made to stride out of the pavilion, until his full weight landed on his gouty foot; he left the tent leaning on the shoulder of the retainer he’d tried to kick, his enchanted armor clanking as they stumped along. Ardenil and Dantono exchanged bleak glances, and followed the King reluctantly.
Teacher sighed, slipped out of the black robes that otherwise seemed attached, and prepared for battle.
There was nothing for the King’s forces to do but to line up and hope for the best. A flanking attack didn’t seem possible; it would spread them too thin, and Ardenil was more and more convinced that his scouting parties hadn’t come back because they’d found the missing enemy cavalry--in the woods, already flanking the King’s forces.
At the back of the Royal troops stood Warin in the resplendent armor that made him look like a very expensive kettle, and Teacher, dressed in a simple black doublet, hose and boots, iron-colored hair pulled back with a leather thong. On either side stood the army’s two generals, long-faced and resigned. Before them, the infantry stood in a long block, with cavalry on both sides. Even their pennants drooped in the dying breeze, as if certain of capture and humiliation. In the distance, behind the defensive earthworks, three ranks of enemy archers waited.
“Teacher!” said Warin. “Remove the earthworks.”
Brows furrowed, Teacher reached out a groping hand, as if trying to tangle it into invisible threads. Teacher’s hand dropped. “I can’t.”
“Can’t or won’t!”
“My disobedience is impossible,” said Teacher wearily. “I cannot remove the earthworks. I can’t budge a pebble.”
“What d’you mean, you can’t!”
Teacher’s eyes squeezed shut, then opened again. “You really are the most tiresome king I have ever served, Your Majesty. I cannot remove the earthworks because they are in Guenor and we are in Tremont.”
“What! Guenor is mine, just as Corland is mine!” shouted Warin.
“Not any more,” answered Teacher. “The land doesn’t recognize you. My magic stops at the border. You have lost control over Corland, sir. It belongs to your son.”
Warin stiffened, and one corner of his mouth gave a miniscule twitch. “I-it is m-mine!” he repeated. “Knock--knock those earthworks down, I tell you! Knock them down!”
Teacher inclined in a small bow, arms spread. “Corland is no longer at your command, sir.”
“D-damn you! Pagg damn you straight to Harla’s Hall, you useless old crow!”
“I was damned before your great-great-grandfather was born,” said Teacher coldly. “You can stop this, Your Majesty, and save the lives of thousands of men whose only crime is loyalty to the throne--a throne, I swear to you, you cannot hold!”
“Sir,” said General Dantono, “if we have no magic at our command to balance the numbers against us, we cannot win! I cannot in good conscience throw the lives of my men away!”
Ardenil felt his heart pounding, resounding against his armor. “With all due respect, Your Majesty,” said the general, “I concur. I will not order an attack.”
Warin turned to face them both. “You are cowards, the pair of you! You will not fight for your king?”
“We, ourselves? Of course we will. But we will not send our men to die for our king’s pride,” said General Dantono. “Nor, sir, will we watch your son slaughter you, when you could live out your old age in honor.”
“Honor?” said Warin. “You know nothing of honor, either of you! Die for my pride? Die for your own pride!” He turned to the ranks of men behind the generals and boomed, “who among you will execute these traitors, who call themselves men of honor and will not fight for their rightful king!” The soldiers shifted on their feet. Lieutenants eyed each other over the ranks uneasily, but no one moved. Warin turned purple. “Very well, then! I’ll do it myself! Teacher! Execute them immediately!”
“A traitor’s death? No,” said General Dantono. He unbuckled his breastplate and moved it aside. Before Ardenil understood what he meant to do, Dantono drew his sword and fell on it. He lay gasping on the ground, the sword buried up to the hilt in his gut, then looked up to his old companion. “Ardenil, if you love me, take my head and end me. I beg you.”
Ardenil looked down at Dantono, struggling to stay still through the pain, and mortally wounded. I’d rather cut out my own heart--it is cutting out my own heart, he thought. But he drew his sword, and did as his friend asked. At least it was a death of his choosing, Ardenil thought. He turned to Teacher, and only then let his tears fall. “I’m sorry, Teacher. Please, follow your king’s orders and kill me, for I have killed my best friend, and I haven’t the heart to kill myself, nor to live.” He glanced over Teacher’s shoulder at Warin. “I have no king to serve any more, so I may as well die.”
Anguish contracted Teacher’s smooth face. “I don’t wish to kill you.”
“But you must,” said the general, handing Teacher his bloodied sword. “He commands it. Get it over with and let me join my friend.”
Ardenil made as if to kneel, but Teacher stopped him. “I will not have you on your knees like a thief.” Teacher ran quickly-bloodied fingers down the sword’s edge. “It’s sharper now than any whetstone can make it. It will be quick, Ardenil, I promise.” Teacher threw the sword into the air; it hovered before the general, just out of his sight. “I’m sorry,” said Teacher.
“Don’t be,” said Ardenil. The last thing he saw before his head hit the ground was the flash of his own sword.
Teacher swept a hand through the air, and the sword drove point-down into the earth next to Ardenil’s head.
A sobbing cry of despair burst from the men around the King; the cry echoed and magnified, as word of the generals’ deaths traveled through the ranks of soldiers. “What is happening?” said Warin.
“They are mourning their leaders,” said Teacher. “They have no one to follow now.”
“What d’you mean! They have me!” said Warin. “Listen, you men! I am your leader! Prepare to attack!”
A few of the more stalwart men took up battle positions, but no sooner had they done so than a hail of arrows went up from behind the earthworks, followed by another, and another. Soldiers fell in great numbers, and the main force finally broke and ran, leaving a desperate but committed ring around the confused Warin, who bawled all the orders he could think of.
The cavalry tried to herd the remaining soldiers into ranks, with mixed success. One officer was pulled bodily from the saddle as he slashed in futility at his desperate attackers. Three men clambered onto his horse, who promptly threw all but one; that man rode for his life as fast as he could and was gone from sight in moments. Other cavalrymen raised their swords and charged the enemy screaming until the archers cut them down; a few of them made it as far as the horsekillers, where the great spikes did their jobs and impaled both horse and rider.
Suddenly the hail of arrows stopped. Both soldiers and cavalry paused; those near the front of the lines called out, “Prince Andrin!” Atop the earthworks stood the Prince, grim but satisfied.
Teacher came striding through the battlefield, throwing soldiers both dead and alive aside with a wave of a hand to the edge of the earthworks. “Per!” Teacher called out. “Meet me in the middle ground, I beg you, and soon! You know you are safe!”
Per clambered down the far side of the defenses, carefully picking his way through the horse-killers, until he stood opposite Teacher between his own men and what was left of his father’s force. “Well?” said Per, “have you any message to relay from my father?”
“None, I’m afraid,” said Teacher. “But you must stay on Tremontine soil, or I can’t protect you.”
“Tremontine--what?” said Per with a confused laugh. “I’ve never left.”
“Corland no longer recognizes your father. It recognizes you.”
Per stared. “D’you mean to say,” he said, “that if I stepped back over the border I’d have the Corrish magic?”
Teacher said, “No. The men of the line have lost the essential ability, you know that. Some day you’ll get it back. You could get it back yourself--”
“I’d prefer to keep you instead,” said Per.
A tentative arrow from one of Warin’s few remaining archers whistled toward them; Teacher deflected it without even looking. “Once you’re king and know the story, you may change your mind, Your Highness.”
“Time to find out,” said Per. He stepped over a Tremontine soldier with an arrow through one eye, making his way around the bodies and frightened men to his father.
Teacher kept one hand toward Per and one toward the King. Arrows and swords directed at either of them bounced off solid air, the arrows falling to the ground, the swords shattered, until Teacher and the Prince reached Warin.
The soldiers surrounding the King raised their pikes. “A standstill, son!” called Warin. “I have a few loyal subjects left!”
“You cannot allow me to be hurt, correct?” said Per to Teacher.
“Except by a man of the blood, and that would be your father.”
Per smirked. He took a step toward the barbed wall of men around his father. One man made a tentative thrust; Per moved closer, arms spread. Encouraged, the soldier thrust again, adding a yell for good measure that turned into a yelp as his pike flew out of his hands and landed several yards away. “You can’t hurt me, good soldiers. I offer anyone within earshot amnesty, if you lay down your weapons and move away,” said Per loudly. The soldiers still huddled on the battlefield immediately threw down their shields and stacked their swords and pikes on top of them. The men surrounding Warin slowly put down their pikestaffs and moved away.
“Cowards!” yelled Warin. “I will hang your heads over the Market Gate!”
“Really, Father?” called Per. “D’you intend to behead them yourself? Or force Teacher to do it for you? Perhaps Mistress Bakerson--excuse me--Lady Callant will emerge from whatever hole she’s hiding in and wield the axe for you.”
Warin was snorting like a bull by this point. “Lady Callant is the love of my life! To think jealousy would lead you to treason!”
“Oh not jealousy,” retorted Per. “You’re welcome to the woman. I am merely saving my inheritance from your incompetence and pride.”
“D’you think I won’t kill you, boy? If I had known what a wicked son you’d turn out to be, I would have strangled you in your cradle!” said Warin. He pulled his sword. “No interference from anyone, Teacher!”
Per stood his ground with his sword still in its scabbard. “Come for me, old man.”
Warin charged, sword aloft, gouty foot apparently forgotten in his rage. Per neatly sidestepped him, deflecting his father’s sword arm and sending the old man stumbling to the ground. “I don’t want to kill you, sir,” said Per. “You can still leave the throne to me as your regent, with no dishonor. I can repair the damage you’ve done, and you--” Warin gave a hoarse cry and came at him again with the same result; this time, Warin stayed down, struggling for breath. “You’re ill, Father! Let me take you home. You can live at Middlemont, and run the house just as you please. You always liked it, you know. You can rest there, and perhaps the fresh air will do your gout some good. Yes? Let me help you up.”
Per extended a hand, but Warin drew a dagger and slashed at him. Per drew his hand back, as sudden pain ripped through it; the dagger had taken his little finger off, and he screamed in fury and shock. He pulled a kerchief from the breast of his doublet and pressed it against the wound. “I swear I will kill you, Father!” he said.
“You won’t need to,” said Teacher at his side.
Per looked down, keeping the kerchief clutched to the stump of his finger. Warin lay choking and twitching like a beached fish on the muddy grass. His face was an unnatural color; his eyes stared sightlessly into the milky sky. “Goodbye, Father,” said Per, his eyes filled with unexpected tears. Warin shuddered one last time, and died.
“The King is dead. Long live the King,” said Teacher quietly.
Temmin came to with the smell of blood and the sound of dying horses still engulfing him. “Every time you show me a battle, even absurd ones like this--perhaps especially like this--I swear I never want to go to war, ever.”
“You have decided to give up your career in the cavalry?” said Teacher.
Temmin shook his head, leaning his elbows on the tabletop. “I never thought of war like this. I thought of it as horses--and glory--and fighting for the King! Not just wasted life, like this. Ardenil--and Dantono. Wasted.” He blew his hair out of his face and leaned back. “Did Per mean it, that he’d let his father live?”
“Yes, I think he did,” said Teacher. “Right up until he lost his finger. Having to kill one’s father, after all, is something few men would wish to face.”
Temmin thought of Harsin. How invincible he seemed! Out loud, he said, “I know I wouldn’t ever want to, and I can’t imagine anyone else wanting to fight my father, either. Except possibly my mother.”
“About your mother. Have you made up your mind about telling her about your unborn brother?”
“I think,” said Temmin, “I’ll know what to do when I see her.”
The Intimate History books are drafts. Keep that in mind as you read. A fully edited and revised version of each book will appear beginning in 2010.
Scryer's Gulch stands and falls on its own, a true soap opera. Never look back, never revise, just make shit up to explain those plot holes away! Yeehaw!
An Intimate History of the Greater Kingdom and Scryer's Gulch by Lynn Siprelle writing as MeiLin Miranda are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
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Comments
Likin the generals
I don't recall seeing those Generals before, or nothing major, so I'm thinking *big* props on flushing them out in such a short scene (epic chapter or no). They brought a tear to my eye.
Also, I'm glad Per didn't have to kill Warin... and ever more curious about Teacher's backstory - though I know that's not to be revealed any time soon.
'Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.'
- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Visit me at http://aprilraines.digitalnovelists.com/
first appearance for the generals
I had them in there as throwaways, and then decided I needed someone to see the battle through. Ardenil shows us the prelude, Per shows us the aftermath. I was sorry to kill them, especially Ardenil.
d'awww
I liked Ardenil's way of thinking, as briefly exposed to it as we were
. Poor guy seemed to deserve better.
not insane
Glad to hear that, and that I didn't miss something important.
I have a gut feeling that when 'you' (the global writer 'you') don't want to kill a character, the death gets written in a more profound manner.
Or I could be full of it.
'Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.'
- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Visit me at http://aprilraines.digitalnovelists.com/
Another excellent chapter,
Another excellent chapter, albeit a quite depressing one. I'm curious to see if Per is any better than Warin when it comes to actually running the country.
I really feel more and more sympathetic to Teacher as all of this goes on (and the image of him in something other than robes is almost startling). He's definitely the sort to dislike such wasted life as much as Temmin seems to
.
"Temmin came to with the smell of blood and the sound of dying horses still in his nose."
The latter half of this sentence doesn't quite fit . . . sound still in his nose? It's gorgeous imagery, but I think the clause is misplaced
.
d'oh!
It didn't say that at one point! *retconning, retconning* Nothing to see here!
Tears in my eyes
This chapter made me tear up. Scenes like this is what I read for. Glorious and tragic and noble and
I'm out of words. My only regret is that there are almost never war stories like this in fiction that contain women. We want our own glorious/tragic/bloody/heroic stories dammit!
women are too smart
to fight wars like this. I'm glad Temmin is learning to see that war is just stupid and pointless--not glorious and exciting.
tragic indeed
Manoki is probably right, sadly enough. Most women in fiction like this aren't as obsessed with honour, glory, et al as the men are.
women's tales of military triumph
Try David Weber's Honor Harrington series. Honor is a captain in a future space-navy, not a fantasy army, but she is written as an excellent female warrior. The first book is "On Basilik Station," the second is "The Honor of the Queen." And more generally, David Weber and John Ringo are both military scifi writers that feature well-characterized male and female warriors, soldiers, and noncombatants in all their many many books.
Oh! And I just remember a really good fantasy story about a female soldier - "The Sheepfarmer's Daughter"! The author escapes me at the moment, but it's an excellent tale about a young woman who rises from enlisted grunt to mercenary officer and heroic warrior. Another well-told story with plenty of good characterization, blood, guts, honor and glory.
Supreme Minister of All Livestock
"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire
Paksenarrion
_Sheepfarmer's Daughter_ is the first story in a trilogy by Elizabeth Moon. The others are _Divided Allegiance_ and _Oath of Gold_. There's a description on the author's website: http://www.elizabethmoon.com/biblio-paks.htm Since those three, she has also written two prequels.
You can buy the entire Paksenarrion trilogy in one volume, _The Deed of Paksenarrion_ -- it was originally written as one long narrative anyway. Here it is on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Deed-Paksenarrion-Novel-Elizabeth-Moon/dp/0671721046 I very much enjoyed that book. I agree with your assessment of good characterization and realism.
~ Serena Firesong ~
Free Lib rary
http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm
Baen has a copy of Sheepfarmer's Daughter in their free electronic libray. Yes the library is free. You can read full story on the site, but increased recognition and customer word of mouth cause sales to go up when a book is put in the free library.
[quote=Firesong]_Sheepfarmer's Daughter_ is the first story in a trilogy by Elizabeth Moon. The others are _Divided Allegiance_ and _Oath of Gold_. There's a description on the author's website: http://www.elizabethmoon.com/biblio-paks.htm Since those three, she has also written two prequels.
Yay for Baen Library!
They have so many awesome books there for free. If you haven't checked it out yet, you totally should. Of course it's REALLY awesome FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE KINDLES! WOOO!
*ahem*
ALRIGHT ALREADY
I'm getting one!
There was a point to this narrative, but it has presently escaped the chronicler's mind.
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online fiction.
While available on paper from good bookstores and libraries many of those stories are also available, at no charge, electronically, from the publishers website www.baen.com/library/
gah! others have already said that.
Probably a misogynist sentiment...
which is kind of startling coming from me, since I'm more of a female chauvinist than a feminist (i.e. feminism is the belief that women are equal to men and I tend to think they're better
), but...
Any fight I have ever seen between women is over something petty. Women tend to avoid conflict and look for compromises that will keep everyone happy. If there was ever a war waged by women, I doubt it would have anything to do with such lofty ideals as honor and glory. I also think the women would be the first to tell you that those are unrealistic things to fight over.
My statement about the compromise thing is based on studies that have been done on the gaming habits of males and females of varying ages. You put a bunch of guys in a room with only a few computers or consoles, and they'll fight over who gets to play and for how long. Girls will usually delegate and make sure everyone gets a fair turn. If you put them together in the same room, rather than fight over who gets to play a game, the women will either sit and watch or find something else to do, in order to avoid a conflict.
I suppose this could be construed as either level headed or cowardly, but at that point you're getting subjective about what's been observed
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Yes, but
Are women like this naturally or because we are bombarded from birth with messages that we (girls) must be peacekeepers, and that it's unladylike to actively engage in conflict? The studies you site have been conducted on men and women that were subjected to a lifetime of upbringing that aimed to instill in them different behaviour according to their sex. It only proves to me that for this particular groups of men and women the cultural indoctrination was sucsessful. It's impossible in this day and age to claim that men and women are fundamentally different phsycollogycally, because no humans exist, that were rised in a total vacuum, and were never exposed to society's messages about gender roles. Till studies are conducted on such a "pure" group I will continue to disbelieve the whole "our minds are inherently different" claim.
I mostly agree with ya, but I
I mostly agree with ya, but I also think there must be *some* physical difference in male and female brains, no matter how small. You can't ignore the fact that males and females are biologically distinct and I have a hard time seeing our brains as being somehow magically exempt from that distinction. For one thing, I'm pretty sure assorted steroid hormones can cross the blood-brain barrier. (i.e., your ovaries gotta signal "menstruate!" versus "pregnant!" to your brain if you're a woman).
That said, of course a culture that urges limitations upon a large portion of its population for outdated or misguided reasons isn't doing itself a lot of favors.
Supreme Minister of All Livestock
"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire
Steroid hormones absolutely
Steroid hormones absolutely cross the blood-brain barrier - they're the major regulators of reproductive cycles and modulate a great number of other neurons as well. They also have receptors in nearly every body tissue.
Yay for a huge endocrinology class in which we spent a month on the female reproductive system. Wanna know folliculogenesis?
I always get my endocrinology
I always get my endocrinology as a subtopic in some other class (mammalian physiology 3 years ago was the last time I formally studied it), so I usually give myself wiggle room in case I'm missing details
Y'know what's funny? Vitamin D is a steroid hormone. I really want to rub that fact in the face of every steroid-fearing, hormone-fearing, anti-science, pseudo-religious organic pure/raw/natural food junkie. *sighs*
Is folliculogenesis how eggs actually mature? I know the basic idea of the egg -> corpus luteum -> pregnant or repeat cycle, but I don't recalling hearing that big term in any of my classes.
Supreme Minister of All Livestock
"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire
Hehehe about vitamin D and
Hehehe about vitamin D and face-rubbing XD. We had a big chunk of the class devoted to that, as well. I'm so sick of memorizing enzymatic pathways for steroidogenesis . . .
And, it's actually a double set of processes in the female - oogenesis is the maturation of eggs while folliculogenesis is the development of the follicle surrounding the egg. They develop according to slightly different stimuli and need to be timed just right for anything to actually work. The follicle is what becomes the corpus luteum after ovulation and produces progesterone during the latter half of the cycle (at least in the human, I have no idea for anything else
).
I have funky charts and graphs because the hormone changes and every extenuating factor is actually rather complicated
. What cracks me up, though, is that you have all of this insanity for female reproduction to work and males basically need a metric fuckton of testosterone around spermatogenic cells and then are pretty much set.
The bit about the corpus
The bit about the corpus luteum producing progesterone for the second half of the cycle/early pregnancy is true in all mammals, anyway. Dunno about the other vertebrates. I have heard of chickens being used to study ovarian cancer, though, so I suspect that they aren't too terribly different.
I never knew that the follicle and the egg were subject to different processes, though. That is nutty! Sometimes I think it's a miracle that we're as fertile as we are.
Supreme Minister of All Livestock
"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire
I'm inclined to agree too. I
I'm inclined to agree too. I wasn't raised in a vacuum by any means, but I was raised to be rational, to be private about emotions, and to respect myself without regard for sex. As a result, I have a hard time understanding girls who were socialized more traditionally, because I think louder than I feel most of the time. I don't permit people to take advantage of me, and I don't feel obliged to be passive in situations where action could solve my problems-- even if the brief confrontation will suck. I don't worry about people thinking I'm mean or somehow unfeminine if I take responsibility for myself and fight back when I have to. While I'm sure there are differences in the brains, because evolutionarily the sexes tend to do different things, I think a lot of it is how you are brought up. Probably the make-or-break stuff is the socialization, because culture is a pretty overwhelming force.
I think the assumption here is a bit off
Behavior and patterns of coping with emotions can be taught, I would wonder more at the brain wave patterns and the biological foundations of thought and not outward signs. There is emphasis placed on certain behaviors as gendered, but that is neither here nor there, all it is is what we as a society classified them as.
Brain wave patterns depends more on the biology/chemistry of the person. Sort of like how no matter male or female either has thyroid problems similar patterns for symptoms come out, same with anxiety attacks. What is interesting is the differences. Like how when in front of sexual images both genders show arousal, but you typify men as more visual. Whereas, women have an instinctive caring response based on children where men show signs but at a less lesser scale. I'm not saying that men don't care, but mentally the response 'in general' [again a broad range of people with extremes on both ends] tends to be less. Noting my boyfriend does baby talk to our hamster more then I do is still funny though!
No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.
Possibly
It seemed to be like Raigne was talking about how men and women act in certain situations, and that's behavioral. I don't know jack about any kind of structural or biochemical differences, although I'd have an easy time believing they're there. I'v always wondered, though, how much of the behavioral difference is socialization. Not 100%, duh, but maybe more of it than one might think? I keep thinking of Reviving Ophelia, in which a girl said that people always told her to smile if she was having a bad day, but she never heard anyone say it to a guy. If our notions of how girls and guys are supposed to act are that pervasive, we might be creating our own monsters.
Yes, I was talking about behavioral differences.
It's obvious that there are other differences, but my point was more that you probably can't blame psychological behavioral differences completely on socialization.
I also don't know much about biochemical differences beyond hormonal differences. A thyroid problem is hormonal. I can think of something that's not hormonal or genetic that demonstrates a difference. STDs. Quite a few of them affect men differently than women. We're getting into an area I know little about though, as I said. I know that HPV is one that men can carry without knowing it. A woman is more likely to pick up gonorrhea from a man than it is for a man to get it from a woman, but that's probably related more to the fact that men with the disease are often asymptomatic, and thus aren't even aware they have it. The opposite is true of chlamydia, where women are the ones who are often asymptomatic.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
As to STI's
differences in STI acquisition rates may have little to do with biochemistry, and more to do with anatomy. (Think: semen inside someone vs. vaginal secretions on the surface.)
It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan
That too.
My clarity must have been lacking though. What I was trying to say is that I assume that since men are often asymptomatic, there are more untreated males wandering around than females. Your conclusion also makes sense though, and it's probably a combination of both. My point was more the fact that there are a variety of different diseases, bacterial, viral and otherwise, that present different symptoms based on the sex of the afflicted.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
I'm pretty much the layman's
I'm pretty much the layman's layman, so I stuck to the social stuff because that's all I know. I'm sure there's more to it, but I'm probably about as well-versed in brain-bio as Lady Callant.
If by a lifetime you're including
studies that were done on 8 year old children, sure.
However, I reject your idea that men and women don't function differently psychologically. If that were true, then gay men would still grow up thinking like men, but when you watch the thinking patterns of an adult gay male, especially one with a feminine nature, the patterns look more like a woman's brain than a man's. You could argue that this is from observing their mothers, sisters, and female friends' behavior, but you'd think the patterns would be something different altogether from the dichotomy of being raised one way and wanting to act another.
While gender roles are definitely honed by society, I think some of that is baser. I think it's an adaptation. Going back to video games, women are more likely to pick a puzzle game than a shooter, and it's got nothing to do with violence. They're also more likely to be better at it without practice than men are. When it involves targeting stationary objects on a cluttered plane, women can do it faster and with greater dexterity than men can. That's all puzzle games like bejeweled or mystery case files are. Men excel at targeting moving objects on an uncluttered plane. I.E. your average first person shooter, or even guitar hero. They'll have an advantage over women with no practice.
Obviously these are trends and there are always people who fall outside the norm (normal meaning the median here, not what's socially considered "normal") but you can't tell me that gender roles have this big an impact on how women and men think. No one told girls they shouldn't play certain kinds of games. They just prefer and excel at different kinds than men. The effect that gender roles have had on women is that they are less likely to go into a technological field. Women are more likely to view a computer as a tool rather than a toy or a complex entity. Women who view a computer as a tool have no desire to spend more time than necessary using it, and they have no desire to take it to pieces and see what makes it tick. Tools are part of the man's world.
So like I said. Gender roles may have something to do with it, but I reject the idealistic feminist view that babies are a tabula rasa and if you leave them alone there'll be no behavioral difference between the men and women they become.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Not to mention
the primate studies that show gender differences! Captive female chimpanzees will actually play peacemaker to the males, to settle their differences.
Of course, a lot of it is societal. My daughter LOOOOOVES trains, planes, trucks, etc, and I get incredibly irritated at people who insist on commenting on it! I don't want her to be aware that people think trains are "boy" toys; I just want her to play with the toys she likes. That, and the fact she insists on wearing pants, and people say really ignorant things right in front of her. I'm always torn between saying "She likes girl toys, too!" (which would make me just as bad) or "I loved watching excavators when I was her age, and do I look butch to you?" (I didn't, and I just learned that it was called an excavator when we started checking out construction picture books at the library) or just plain old "don't be a dumbass."
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
There are many reasons that
studies on other primates should not be used as proof that humans should be a certain way.
One is that a lot of that data is based on studies of captive animals. That is not reliable data. Another is that humans are not gorillas, or chimpanzees, or bonobos, or whatever the flavor of the month ape is that people point to to justify what ever behavior they want to justify. We are different. We think differently, we interact differently. Sure you can teach a gorilla sign language. You can also teach a human baby sign language. Does the baby think and communicate the same way as an adult? Not even close.
Gorillas sometimes eat meat, so they aren't proof we should be vegetarians. Bonobos occasionally run each other down and beat the crap out of each other, so they aren't proof that humans were meant to be polyamory and that if we were we'd be a peaceful utopia. Neither one is a human, so they shouldn't be used as benchmarks of human behavior and development. Despite the fact that they fall into instinctual gender roles, which supports my previously stated opinion, it's not an indicator that humans also do it.
If it were, it'd be perfectly acceptable to eat our young when food is scarce and we can't feed them. *waits for the obligatory "Wait, you mean we're not supposed to eat babies?" comments*
ETA: I would go with "don't be a dumbass." Especially since I'm sure she'll grow up just fine, and most guys seem to dig chicks who like what they like
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
I wasn't saying that primate
I wasn't saying that primate studies indicate how people "should" behave. There are, after all, 6 million years of divergent evolution between us. Perhaps my point should be a little more broad: males and females of a species behave differently.
Sex hormones have an effect on brain development. Males and females are different. If I use examples of gender differences in other species, I am in no way trying to say that we should use them as role models, but that there is something to be learned from comparing humans to other primates!
Your "flavor of the month" comment suggests that you think it's a fad to compare people to apes, but Darwin did it:
I have attended, as closely as I could, to the expression of the several passions in some
of the commoner animals; and this I believe to be of paramount importance, not of
course for deciding how far in man certain expressions are characteristic of certain
states of mind, but as affording the safest basis for generalization on the causes, or
origin, of the various movements of Expression.
Oh, and the one example I used was actually from a study that compared chimpanzee behavior in the wild and in captivity. I just picked the easiest "fun fact." Can't find it now, but female chimps stay the hell away from male conflicts in the wild.
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
It tends to get thrown around
by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Which is what I mean by flavor of the month.
I think we can learn a lot about apes by studying them, and by all means compare them to humans. And it's fine to pick the good qualities of an animal to base your world view on, but the people who try and use it to convince others that they're right are deluding themselves.
And, I think that most chimps who are uninvolved in a fight tend to stay the hell away from fighting. Either someone's kid just got stolen or someone pissed the dominant pair off. Best to not draw attention to yourself.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
No, that was the funny part
damn, I wish I could find the article... The males in this community, usually related, would form (very loose) alliances & fight for each other. I think they might have been desert dwellers? Fights among traditional chimp populations aren't as common. I think. It's late, and I really wish I had a source.
ETA: I hope you're not suggesting that I'm deluding myself. I actually think that in this case, when you're trying to determine the influence of human society, it's pretty useful to see if the variable generalizes across species.
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
Are you sure it was chimpanzees?
Could have been another ape. And what you just described has more details than what you said before. It's 1:44 in the morning here, so I'm confused now too
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
I wasn't going for details
I was going for a throw-away fun fact on gender differences in apes. I never expected it to devolve into a debate on whether or not a chimpazee study should be considered in a discussion of human behavior.
I was going to go to bed an hour ago, but your comment had to be replied to--just because I'm interested in primate studies (and think they can be useful tools for studying human behavior) doesn't mean I'm some idiot who claims that humans should follow a magical primate diet.
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
I didn't mean to imply
that you were one of those idiots who did. I apologize if it came out that way. In any case, I'll quit replying so you can get some sleep xD
Goodnight.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Not saying you're wrong...
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
arrg...
primate development, agression, and sex...
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
It's a good thing
I didn't misread that as pirate development, with the smiley and subject...
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
what about...
Bonobo's? We do tend to try and solve a lot of problems with sex. Like past and present day soldiers. Take a crap load of guys tell them aggression is okay and don't pay them much. Boom perfect recipe for war rapes.
People also try and become roles according to what they are socialized even though they might [out of context think it's utterly wrong]. The Stanford Prison experiment had to be shut down early because how easily the students inhabited not only the roles but the mindset of the positions they played. I mean, playing with trucks and airplanes rock, [I still love them!] but when demanding respect women often consciously take on masculine imagery to make it more acceptable.
No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.
I meantioned the bonobos.
There's still violence between Bonobos. Sex doesn't solve everything. I might accept that it can make everyone chill the f. out, and the state of mind is more conducive to problem solving, but violence will still happen. We're not talking about small spats either, we're talking about apes that will be walking around with healed over battle scars. I wouldn't attribute war rape to only aggression and lack of sex either. There is a lot of psychological conditioning that goes into preparing soldiers for war, and among the most important is the dehumanization of the enemy. You have to make sure your soldiers have absolutely no doubt in their mind that the enemy is not human. They have to be willing to point a gun at a child's head and pull the trigger if the child's pointing one at them. I would say at that point, aggression and sexual deprivation is the least of what makes up the mindset of someone who will rape an enemy.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
The Agta
There's a tribe out there called the Agta (I believe in Africa), and they are one of the few cases of what we used to call "gender reversal". The women are the warriors, the game hunters, the boasters, while the men stay at home and cook and raise children and stuff like that. It's interesting because they still do a lot of delegation (especially when it comes to who takes time off from hunting and whatnot for "maternity leave"), but they will tend to override men's arguing and delegate for them rather than avoid conflict. Basically, a conclusion could be drawn that women delegate naturally because of our brain make-up, but avoiding conflict is a....Western? Industrialized? Non-Agta sentiment. = P
Philippines
(Google is amaaaaazing. Also, if you've got links to show I'm wrong, go for it, cause I've never heard of the Agta before today, and I'm basing this off only a few paragraphs in an anthropology book.)
While Agta women did hunt, there really doesn't seem to be a role reversal. Men may have taken over child care from time to time, but they were hardly the primary care givers. Both men and women hunted, and while it may have been a pretty egalitarian society, I wouldnt call it a gender reversal--just pretty close to even.
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
The way you describe it
it sounds like they delegate for the men when the men can't reach a decision or are squabbling amongst themselves. Like they're trying to avoid that kind of fighting, not provoke more. If that's what you meant, it's still trying to avoid conflict. I wouldn't say avoiding conflict is Western or Industrialized, though I know what you're trying to say there. It's possible.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Raigne+the Which
Yeah, it's not a complete role reversal. I mean, no one would call it a true matriarchy by any means. Yeah, it's more of a matter of women actually being involved in decision making and stuff like that--equality in group dynamics. The things that make them novel an interesting is that they hunted on a pretty regular basis--that caught peoples' attention. The big thing is that the women have their own circles of trade and stuff like that which are independent of any related/wedded males, but not exclusively female. Like, men and women would both go into the same sort of marketplace--not one for males and one for females or different areas of the same marketplace, and men and women won't just congregate together. Um... *is also sleepy* Like, what I mean is kind of like men don't go into the make-up section here and women don't head into power tools and whatnot without different treatment or odd glances. (Moreso 'cause I'm in the south. = P ) But if they had Wal-Marts in the Phillipines, women and men would head into whatever section they wanted, buy and sell without being condescended to or anything, but most importantly they would not have to deal exclusively with their own gender or within the sphere of their spouse.
I think it's bed time for me too. I has the dumb. = P
"If there was ever a war
"If there was ever a war waged by women, I doubt it would have anything to do with such lofty ideals as honor and glory."
Not this woman. Although I'd like to think it would never come to that point, that I wouldn't fight for those things... I know I'm the kind of person who fights bitterly, to the end, for ideals.
I'm not.
I will fight for my freedoms. It doesn't mean I'd fight for Liberty or Justice or any other intangible thing like that. I will fight for my family and my standard of living, sure. Usually if I'm fighting it's because I'm pissed off about something. Anger's definitely the most likely reason. At that point I could give a rats ass about my honor, it's got more to do with the fact that if I'm going out, I'm going out swinging and I'm taking you out with me.
I don't usually fight though.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
anecdotal
Random observations on womanly behavior: it's hard to fight when your boobs are all big and swollen from nursing, and you've got the babe held on your hip. Or if you're pregnant. So our species' survival requires that woman have at least occasional periods up to several months long where we *must* avoid fighting. Simple survival requires that men avoid fighting for only the 5-10 minutes required to impregnate a woman. That said, we use a "quality over quantity" method of reproduction, so it's to our advantage for men and women to generally avoid fighting, but then come out swinging like demon beserkers when it comes to saving our kids' lives. Also, we women have a hidden estrus that provides extra incentive for the men to play nice
Point being: as I said, there are biological differences, but as a justification for constraining a person's behavior based solely on gender (versus, say, how extroverted they are or how much they can bench press), it's kinda ridiculous.
Supreme Minister of All Livestock
"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire
Extra incentive
to play nice? Then why do men end up fighting over women all the time?
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
because we're not very
because we're not very clever.
It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan
He's TheBoy, so I guess he'd
He's TheBoy, so I guess he'd be the expert
Also, I guess "extra incentive for boys to play nice with the girls" would have been more accurate.
Supreme Minister of All Livestock
"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire
That
Makes much more sense.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
This was an amazing
This was an amazing chapter... I especially liked the part where Corland suddenly stops being part of Tremont, atleast as far as Teacher's magic goes...I didn't think that could happen... Raises all sorts of questions, doesn't it?
I've actually been hoping that...
... we'd see something like this happening. It makes complete sense from the way we have been told so far that male magic works, and it adds the interesting twist that it's not so much the Tremontine magic that is Teacher's to command, but the magic of the Tremontine dynasty. This, too, makes sense - I just haven't thought of it that way.
In other news, that was a good chapter: sad, poignant, and thought-provoking.
I was really wondering how it
I was really wondering how it comes to pass that the land itself doesn't recongnise the King, but instead, the Heir... Am I missing something? Has this been explained before? I mean, why did it happen in this instance? And once the land recognised Per, it stopped being under Teacher's power, which is again strange, because Per is the heir, and also of the blood, so Teacher has to protect him, but the land just stops being part of Tremont...
Am I losing it, or what?
yes, I want to know this, too
How does the land decide when Per has more loyalty to the troops? How does it know who is the heir? Interesting to anthropomorphize the land in this way...I've never seen it anywhere else.
answers
It's kinda complicated, but I swear it hangs together internally. I hope. So here we go:
1) Teacher is bound to obey the current head of the family, and has whatever magic that man would have.
2) Teacher is also bound to protect males in the reasonable line of succession.
3) The land in this world recognizes the balance of power. If most of the people following guy #1 suddenly start following guy #2, the land stops recognizing guy #1 and recognizes guy #2. Or if it's really clear that guy #2 (and his forces) can beat the crap out of guy #1 (and his forces), the land switches allegiance. Tremont didn't switch when Per crossed over because Per crossed over alone.
4) Teacher's binding does not switch with the land's. It stays with the Tremonts. So if the Tremonts find themselves in possession of only a rocky island in the middle of a lake, Teacher might be able to snare a few fish in a magic net and that's about it.
ETA on the question of protecting Per: As long as Per was in Guenor, Teacher couldn't protect him; the magic didn't extend into the duchy any more. That's why Teacher called him out across the border.
I find this logical.
Makes sense to me.
blocked....
So, they are doing upgrades to the network where I am employed and most of the interblog is blocked. So I haven't been able to check in all day.
I thought it was interesting that the land recognized the leader as the one who had the most popular support. So, under that theory, if a lord was more popular than the king, wouldn't the land recognize the lord and then be no longer part of the Tremmontine kingdom?
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Exactly
That's just the sort of thing I'm wondering, although for me it was an invading army.
If a massive army invaded Tremont and Tremont clearly had no chance of winning, would the land switch sides? If that's the case, it would suck to base even a portion of your tactics on the land's magic. That's not how I would choose to go into battle, anyway.
Perhaps
It's still tied to the blood? Maybe it only works if the guy there's more popular support for is a royal.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
that's why
...none of the battles we've seen are based on magic; it would be a foolish strategy, though a strong magic wielder can turn the tide. Ilhovin smacked down the rebels using magic, but it wasn't his only game plan; he had a whole cohort with him, because he could only use magic so much before having to rest. He also knew the balance of power was with him; Henrik and his gang were nowhere near in control of their territories, the common folks being loyal to him.
If, however, a massive army suddenly showed up--let's say the entire Strategic Air Command slipped through a break in the space-time continuum and decided to conquer Tremont--the land would absolutely switch sides. But that's why the Tremonts have rarely fought fair, from the very beginning. Physical force first, magic second.
There are reasons that won't happen
Mostly involving a great deal of political manipulation, coercion, co-optation and outright murder of anyone who looks as if he might become more popular than the King. Also keep in mind that a lot of the Tremontine lords spend a great deal of time in the capital rather than in their respective territories. Most everyone's in the capital off and on for the social season, which runs approximately from Fall's Ending through Spring's Beginning. It's over the winter.
The capital tends to get oppressively hot in the summer and most of the genteel folks flee to their country homes. The royal family goes to their mountain retreat, Highhaven, which was begun by Warin the Foolish for Rose; they spend the latter half of Summer's Beginning and most of Summer's Ending there, with a trip down the mountain for Venna's Day (first day of Summer's Ending). It depends on what the weather is like. There have been years where the family stayed in town the entire summer, and there have been years when they went to Highhaven just after Neya's Day and stayed there till well after Farr's Day (first day of Fall's Beginning).
I'm curious...
How well do you know your days of the week/seasons? Do you have to think, Summer's end... Ok, that's Venna's Day? Or do you just know?
Since I'm not sure that question made sense, I know that a gato is a furry thing that meows; I don't have to translate it into "cat" to know what it means.
Do you have to think about it before you write?
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
yes and no
I can pretty much rattle off the days of the week now, or close to it. And I increasingly have the Wheel of the Year down. If I think about it for a sec, I can rattle it off, too.
reminders...
Speaking of which, did you ever decide which Calendar you want me to finish?
Or if you wanted something else, I can pound that out too...
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
calendar
I actually settled this in the wiki a while back and forgot to tell anyone (I do that--fill in backstory stuff in the wiki--which is why one should pay attention to it):
The Wheel of the Year describes the Tremontine calendar. It is divided into eight Spokes (more or less a long month from our perspective), each of which has either 45 or 46 days. The start of each Spoke is marked by a religious holiday dedicated to one of the eight major deities.
The Spokes and observances are as follows:
Winter's Beginning (46 days) -- Eddin's Day (Winter Solstice/New Year)
Winter's Ending (45 days)-- Amma's Day (Candlemas approx)
Spring's Beginning (46 days) -- Pagg's Day (Spring Equinox)
Spring's Ending (45 days)-- Neya's Day (Beltane approx)
Summer's Beginning (46 days) -- Nerr's Day (Summer Solstice)
Summer's Ending (45 days) -- Venna's Day (Lugh approx)
Fall's Beginning (46 days) -- Farr's Day (Autumn Equinox)
Fall's Ending (46 days) -- Harla's Day (Samhain approx)
Every four years, a day is added to the year--the day after Farr's Day--and is treated as a holiday of its own called Ownday. It's the one day that everyone is guaranteed to have off, even servants. All preparations for Ownday are made in the weeks leading up to it, and all the meals taken that day are cold unless you arrange otherwise. (A common arrangement is for the village baker to stoke his oven well the night before and the villagers set the morning meal in it to cook overnight in the fading heat. Usually the baker charges a couple of coppers for this, but for Ownday he takes as many pots as he can fit, for free.) It is considered an unlucky day for business and travel; all the Temples, shops and markets close, and most folks hold open houses and spend the day visiting one another. If you wish to be in a particular place for Ownday, you must get there before the day begins; otherwise you celebrate it where you are. The nobility traditionally fund parties that night for the common folk of their holdings, and are expected to at least make an appearance, though they must drive themselves; the coachmen have the day off. Generally speaking, Ownday falls on the same schedule as our Leap Day--every four years.
dork fish...
Um, if KY 990 = our 2007, Eddin's Day (Winter Solstice) is 22 DEC 06 and Pagg's Day is (Spring Equinox) 21 MAR 07, that’s only 89 days and you have a total of 91 days for the Spokes that start with Eddin and Amma’s days.
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
let me wrap my feeble brain around this
So the number of days between solstices and equinoxes is uneven?
sigh.
humbly submitted…
if KY 990 = 2007,
Eddin's Day (Winter Solstice) is 22 DEC 06 to the day before Pagg's Day is (Spring Equinox) 21 MAR 07, 89 days (Except for KY 991 as it is a leap year and there are 90 days.)
Pagg's Day is (Spring Equinox) 21 MAR 07 to the day before Nerr's Day (Summer Solstice) 21 JUN 07 is 92 days
Nerr's Day (Summer Solstice) 21 JUN 07 to the day before Farr's Day (Autumn Equinox) 23 SEP 07 is 94 days.
Farr's Day (Autumn Equinox) 23 SEP 07 to the day before Eddin’s Day (Winter Solstice) 22 DEC 07 is 90 days.
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
991 can't be a leap year
That's too awkward to keep track of. So let's call 990 2008 since it was a leap year. (And there go all your calculations! Sorry!)
Well! Those Eddinites will have a lot to keep track of, apparently. And I'll have a lot of retconning to do. Which I knew I'd have to do anyway.
The midpoints of those Equinox/Solstice cycle, whatever they are would be the Goddesses' holidays. If it doesn't divide evenly, the extra day goes into the God's month before it. For instance, Eddin's Day to Pagg's Day is 89 days; Eddin's month would be 45 days and Amma's month would be 44. Does that make sense?
And I'm sorry to have dragged my feet on this; I thought I'd been clever and figured it all out on my own. Drat that planetary wobble. And I don't know why I'm basing it so much on our planet's wobble, since the continents don't match. I just want to give as real a feeling to the place as possible.
calculations...
I've got the layout down and that was the hard part. The rest is easy, just takes time.
The real challenge for the Eddinites is keeping track of when the Equinox/Solstice changes a day.
For the odd days, I think I already had it figured that way, but now it's cannon.
I think you're changing the year because you're excited to write an Ownday celebration. No, that can't be right, with this change, Ownday was a spoke before Temmin came to the Capitol. But that would mean I'm assuming that Ownday corresponds to 29 Feb. So, where do you want Ownday inserted in the calendar?
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Ownday
I won't be writing all the celebrations right off the bat anyway. We're probably going to be compressing time a lot more severely in the finished books and the next three books after that; we may jump ahead a year between books three and four. We'll see.
ETA: dammit, forgot the point. Ownday was to fall the day after Farr's Day, so the day after Fall Equinox, but that doesn't work. Too many preps for Ownday to fall right after Farr's Day. Hm. OK, let's make it the day BEFORE Farr's Day. Preps can be combined.
day off...
If we put the leap day the day before Farr's day, that throws off the Spring Equinox and Summer Solstice by a day. Not that I can't adjust, but just a thought...
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
reply
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uh-oh...
Are the thread police going to show up again??
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Baby bump
When were they saying they expected Twenna to start to show? From my own experience (I'm about 17 weeks along), I'm bigger around than I used to be, but I'm pretty sure part of that is just flab and not baby. I would think that Twenna would start to show around 16 weeks = 112 days = 2.5 spokes... but then she probably has the perfect slender figure, so maybe the bulge would be more obvious on her?
Come to that, Ansella got pregnant slightly in advance of Twenna. If she were well enough to be out and about as usual, when would she be showing?
~ Serena Firesong ~
I was 28 weeks...
when someone asked a coworker "who's the chick with the fat stomach?" I was showing just enough that it wasn't obvious I was pregnant.
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
The arrogance of the Tremont line
Is what really struck me in this chapter. Not only the personal sureness of a win, more grotesque from Warin to the sure, but also Periander's willingness to believe his father would be willing to give up real power to 'live out his days in peace'. To be sure Warin is ill and has very little concept of reality, but there is something very interesting about Per's willingness to offer a 'good end' until he experiences pain, then when he realizes that the dying tiger can still bite he is then able to think about killing his father. Compare that tho the arrogance of Harsin and how immaterial his wife's knowledge of his affair's new progeny is to him.
The poor generals, though in an odd way they might have saved the majority of their men. I love how teacher's mercy is for a painless death because he is bound by the King's will. Warin seems so much like a petulant child when demanding Teacher to pull down the earth works!
No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.
That's royalty all over, as
That's royalty all over, as far as I can tell. Any number of times in a history class, I would go "...the fuck?" at the habits or actions of a royal, only to go "Oh, right, totally indulged from birth" right after. It's not a flattering comparison, the head of a big country and a spoiled toddler, but it kind of fits. No one dares tell either one no, so they grow up thinking it's okay to do what they want, and that it's inherently right to get anything they want when they want it. The men of Tremont, aside from one here or there, are no exception. Here's hoping Temmin turns out to be one; Teacher's having some success so far, and Temmin being raised out of the palace helps too.
it's not immaterial at all
What is immaterial are Teacher's thoughts on the matter. Harsin VERY MUCH cares about what Ansella's going to do or say about Twenna's pregnancy, and he doesn't want anyone to tell her because he's not sure what to do about it...
Yes, Harsin, because ignoring
Yes, Harsin, because ignoring the problem is going to make it go away *rolls eyes*. And he's such a smart man, when it comes to anything except women in general and his family in particular...
I mean, is that why Nerr removed Twenna's enchantment in the first place? To use the preganacy as a crisis force Harsin to deal with his relationship with Ansella? That's the first reason I've come up with that even begins to make sense for why the Lover got involved in Harsin's affairs, but it's still a really fucked-up reason. Locking the two of them in a room with the High Beloved and Lover to mediate would be much more effective, IMO
Of course, it isn't clear yet what, if any, limits there are on the Tremontine Gods meddling with mortal people's business. Hrmm...
Supreme Minister of All Livestock
"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire
He is a smart man
and as I am forced to tell friends and family all the time when they go, "But you're so smart!"
Sometimes smart people do stupid things. Alfred Nobel invented dynamite to make mining more efficient. Never occurred to him that he'd be reviled because his invention would be used as a weapon against people.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
no need for a good reason
Meh, you could always use the age-gold reason for gods messing with normal people's lives: boredom.
Prophecy
Since some kind of relationship between the gods and the future is going on, I just think they know who can and can't be prevented from being born.
Twenna wanted a baby
Nerr knew that. Maybe that was part of it. She wanted a baby, but wore the sigil. He removed it because it was annoying him/abhorrent to him that the two were in conflict.
Or, possibly because of, or in addition to the above, getting the royal family's knickers into a twist would be funny. That's reason enough for a meddling god.
Or maybe they want two heirs for some reason known only to them for now. I'm rampantly speculating, I have no idea.
Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common. --Dorothy Parker
I kind of wonder
if the gods are aware of what they prophecy for the royal family before it happens. Was Neya already aware of everything she showed Temmin? If so, maybe this is a plan to derail the mechanations of someone else? While I can't help but feel it's slightly traitorous, I am a little afraid that Teacher is a secret bad guy.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Y'know, I *like* that
Y'know, I *like* that explanation! Twenna wanting a baby and Nerr wanting to oblige with the bonus of tweaking the Royal Nose. No idea if it's the right one, but it's almost kinda sweet and mostly even logical for a meddling god type.
Supreme Minister of All Livestock
"Use, do not abuse. Neither abstinence nor excess renders man happy." - Voltaire
I did wonder about that
I was sort of confused by that, I mean we had that whole seduction scene at the lover's chase so we know Harsin likes his wife, just is a bit too 'kingly' to wait around.
No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.
interesting chapter
When Teacher said he had been damned a long time ago, was he referring to the intentions of who- or whatever caused his immortality or to his own feelings about it?
That's what I got from it.
That's what I got from it.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
I think this chapter really
I think this chapter really underscores the horror of Teacher's situation. It's really quite chilling with that in mind. Or maybe I just think weird things...?
Sex, gays, and violence--Dead Boyfriend by yours truly. Volume One finished!
Rereading it with that in mind...
yes. I absolutely agree with you.
Life... is like a grapefruit. It's orange and squishy, and has a few pips in it, and some folks have half a one for breakfast.
terry pratchett once wrote in
terry pratchett once wrote in one of the discworld novels or another(well, not directly, but it was suggested in the character's thoughts) that there is no such thing as an honorable death in battle, but i think the generals there just proved him wrong.
"I have heard the languages of the apocalypse, and now I shall embrace the silence" from Neil Gaiman's "The Sandman: Endless Nights"
careful reading...
they weren't in battle.
It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan
not as such, but it was a
not as such, but it was a battlefield decision. that's all i meant when i said 'in battle'
"I have heard the languages of the apocalypse, and now I shall embrace the silence" from Neil Gaiman's "The Sandman: Endless Nights"
I really liked this chapter,
I really liked this chapter, the generals were good to read on, but it was sad to see them go so quickly, also to see how the magic is influenced with the Teacher is cool too. Good job on this one, keep them coming!
I can has explanation ?
There's an expression I don't understand - and it might be my first in the History :
..."the black robes that otherwise seemed attached", ...
attached to what ? otherwise how ? ... mmh... doesn't parse for me (but that might be the lack of sleep, so if anyone answers "duh !" I'll probably agree tomorrow morning)
Apart from that, the visual image of Teacher in battle outfit was incredibly powerful. And -dare I say it ? sexy
--
"The slow movement seems, somehow, to say much more."
you can haz
otherwise seemed attached to Teacher.
Teacher shook his head. “No.
Teacher shook his head. “No. The men of the line have lost the essential ability, you know that. Some day you’ll get it back. You could get it back yourself--”
“I’d prefer to keep you instead,” said Per.
Theory: This might imply that the king could get the magic back if he killed Teacher.
theories...
How different is the face? Is it just different enough that it's related? Is it so different that there's no chance for relation? Maybe Teacher is a relation to Temmin the Great, tried and failed to harm his brother (Cain & Able) and was damned to protect the line of kings? So, being related, and that the kings or somehow not able to weild the magic, if one were to kill Teacher, would the magic simply go back to the land and then no one in Tremmont would have use of it...
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
What I understood from that line
is that Teacher was hinting at the Henrik/Macca thing. Though Teacher said that Temmin was the first to hear that particular story, it doesn't mean Teacher hasn't tried to tell it before.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Arthur Conan Doyle
------
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
That is a possibility...
... that is somewhat reminiscent of what happened in this chapter: Teacher could't use Corland's magic, and neither could Per.
And as for killing Teacher to get back the magic - whyever would the kings of Tremont do that, especially since it would possibly risk losing the magic completely? They could just release Teacher from whatever is binding him to serve the kings, and get their magic back that way. No fuss, no muss.
A Bit More to it, I think
And as for killing Teacher to get back the magic - whyever would the kings of Tremont do that, especially since it would possibly risk losing the magic completely? They could just release Teacher from whatever is binding him to serve the kings, and get their magic back that way. No fuss, no muss.
I think there's a little more to it than just telling Teacher that he's free to go. In fact, I'm not so sure that the two things are related at all since Teacher was already bound to the Tremontine royal line before they lost their magic.
There's just so much in this chapter that gets revealed in the details. What does occur to me, however- and I wonder if anyone else has come to the same conclusion- is that it seems that more than anything else, Teacher is teaching Temmin how to get around his powers and his own limitations. He seems to be showing Temmin how to kill someone under his own protection.
yipe
(a) I had to re-read this chunk to figure out where the pronouns were relating, but
(b) VERY curious thought.
I'll do an OMGWTFBBQ! if Temmin offs his father in the immediate future.
It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan
OMGWTFBBQ buster
(a) I had to re-read this chunk to figure out where the pronouns were relating, but
(b) VERY curious thought.
I'll do an OMGWTFBBQ! if Temmin offs his father in the immediate future.
Immediate future no. We already know that Temmin's reign doesn't begin for another ten years. Not to mention, I get the impression that Harsin is actually a formidable fighter in his own right.
at this point in time
Harsin could totally kick Temmin's ass times ten. The kid wouldn't make it past the first punch. I've been planning a sparring session with them at some point, probably in "War of the Brothers", but then, I thought WotB was going to be book four. I'm beginning to rethink that; it may be the penultimate book instead.
Hey--he's heir apparent, but
Hey--he's heir apparent, but for all we know one of Harsin's brothers could be a gap-filler, esp. if he rounded up the military force.
It's supposed to be a challenge, that's why they call it a shortcut. If it was easy it would just be the way.
--Road Trip
"Funny. Terrible, but funny." (that's typically my aim)
-NorthwoodsMan
Well, it is a bit more complicated...
... than just releasing Teacher, yes. There is the whole business of reuniting Henrik with his head and Ilhovin with Macca, for example. Without that, removing Teacher from the equation would at best accomplish nothing more than returning the magic to the land, where no-one would be able to use it. And that's ignoring the question whether anyone, including the kings of Tremont, could actually kill Teacher.
I've been thinking a little
I've been thinking a little about Teacher, and there's an implication about magic that I realized while talking with Katie. Male magic affects inanimate objects. Female magic affects people.
Teacher is a person, ergo he must have been ensorcelled by a woman or a god. The gods have shown little favour for kings, so I'm thinking that one unlikely. This leads to another conclusion: Either Maeb did it, or there was another female magic user. Assuming Maeb is Mavierna, and thus the singular female magic user, why would Maeb do it? From what we've seen, Maeb and Teacher are deeply in love, but their circumstance has forced them apart. What would make Maeb do that to her lover?
My crackpot theory:
Connin is Temmin the Great's bastard son, from his mistress, Maeb. In order to secure the throne for his rightful heir, Temmin I wanted to kill Connin. Maeb begged him to allow her to keep the baby; the king shrewdly demanded that she make sacrifices in order to keep him. In exchange for the baby's life, she would bind her lover/husband (The Teacher) to the Tremontine king until he was released.
Questions this raises
-Why are they immortal?
-Is Teacher Ennia anyway? (Since Maeb seems to be clearly Mavierna)
-Where did Teacher's magic come from?
-Why can Teacher discuss the divine?
I'm no end table, I'm a nightstand.
If this is what I get
When I spend a day upgrading my computer, I really do need to start pampering the machine. Excellent chapter wit great characters. When even throw away characters are multi dimensional & Temmin shows more wisdom every day concerning his family & what it means to be a ruler. ---WOW--- what a great addition.
Sometime or another I would love to learn about Teacher's childhood, I'm betting it would prove to be very illuminating.
Anything that kills your inner-song is always going to be bad for you. - Personal Wisdom
Gets the points and ask ML
Gets the points and ask ML about it? If she would answer it, as she reserves the right to answer things in her own, delicious way.
"There is an art, a knack for flying. This knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss!"--DNA
Teacher's background is off-limits
And Teacher's childhood really isn't all that relevant anyway.
and also quite a long time ago=)
teacher might even be forgetting bits of it!
No trees have been hurt in this message, but millions of electrons have been terribly inconvenienced.
Somehow I just knew
Anything that kills your inner-song is always going to be bad for you. - Personal Wisdom
To Northwoodsman re: calendar
aaagh! so it has to go at the end of a male spoke, then? I'd like it to be in temperate weather, so that'd be before Neya's Day (Beltane--May) or Venna's Day (Lugh--August), though right before Harla's Day would be kinda cool, considering that it's the Halloween equivalent...
nope...
If the calendars were consistant, it would be the day before Pagg's day (Spring Equinox). So, on a female spoke and at least the potential for temperate weather.
But, if you are okay with the Equinox and Solstice being off by one day every four years, it can stay the day before Farr's day.
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
so what you're telling me
...is that adding a day to February is, like, for a reason?
All right then, that works. Celebrations held inside.
maybe not...
well ya know, hate to throw off the harvest...
So, day before, or day after Pagg's day?
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
day before
There's a lot of prep for Ownday and for Pagg's Day, and if the day after is Ownday, no one will be prepared having been busy the day before. If that makes sense...
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